Everything Else => Front Page Articles => Topic started by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 07:59:03 AM

Title: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 07:59:03 AM
Ladies and gentlemen the time has come for me to share something with you that shows the state of where our beloved program is, and just how sad and bad it truly is. Something MUST be done, done fast, and I truly think it has to be a grass roots type movement.

Lastnight I attended the banquet for the freshman football team. There was a gentleman who spoke at this event by the name of Ron Swartz. Ron is a past Booster Club president and still heavily involved with the program and the club. He spoke to the freshman throughout the year at team dinners about many different things, many of which were great topics. During the season he spoke to the team one night about something that my fiance came home and told me about, and it rocked me to the core because I knew then this program is in critical condition. To be honest with you I did not totally believe my fiance at the time, thinking/hoping she either mid understood or blew what she heard out of proportion. Sadly, this wasn't the case at all. Last night, I heard the same thing said and it has literally made me sick. Ron got up and talked about the importance of the program, grades, attitude, etc. Mr Swartz continued on to talk about this.... He said that it's hard on our kids to play football for Massillon, and can even be uncomfortable. He said that it is the duty of the club to " give them things to keep them interested in playing for the Tigers".  I literally got hot behind the ears. I was sick! He repeated the same thing my fiance told me about the night during the season when they passed out hoodies to the freshman. And not only did he say this one time last night, but repeated at least 3 times.

This is a serious problem! If we need to give out all the bullshit we do to keep our players interested and comfortable to play for the Tigers, our program is in ruins! It's stressful to play for Massillon?? Are you serious right now? Did I really hear this?? Are the kids at Central uncomfortable and stressed in their game jerseys that don't match and have numbers wearing off, while they are winning championships? How about Perry? Do they need to give all the hoopla out to keep the kids interested in playing for the Panthers?

After hearing what I heard last night, I honestly "get" where our program is and why it's there. We need a movement of ex players, supporters, etc to demand a change in the culture of the booster club which in turn may effect the culture of the program as a whole. If a kid isn't interested in being a Massillon Tiger, because it is a special program, then I don't want them to be on the damn team! We don't need to give them swag, helicopters, and other stuff to keep them around! How does Ron say those things and his ears not ring from the fact it is actually a horrible philosophy!? I am sick. As an ex Tiger, I am disheartened. And this is exactly why Shep didn't last hear, and why BJ Payne wasn't given the time of day. Those two guys would have ripped the microphone right out of Ron's hands! Something needs to change, and we need to demand it!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 14, 2016, 08:22:16 AM
I think the problems run way deeper than a few free hoodies and t-shirts.

Look no further than the current demographics and urban decay settling into Massillon. 

A movement of ex players ??? 

You mean all the ones that have either moved out of state or into the surrounding suburbs where they now send their kids to play ??
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:08:15 AM
BRM, may I move this to the front page?

Let me know if you want me to change the name or if you are ok with it bearing your name.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 09:22:25 AM
You can, not a problem
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 14, 2016, 09:26:18 AM
I have no problem with the Booster Club giving kids perks as a result of being on the football team but if you go too far it creates the feeling of entitlement, which has been mentioned before.

Kind of like giving out food stamps, the more they give out, the more entitled the people get and want more and more while doing less and less.

On the other hand, you have identified a core issue, maybe the most important issue. The fact that the Booster Club (or at least Ron Swartz) feels that it's their obligation to keep kids interested in playing football is just ridiculous. The fact that they feel it is their obligation to do anything is ridiculous. The Booster Club should be nothing more than a support group. They should stay out of coaching, management, undermining coaches and administration, etc.

I don't think I know this Ron Swartz guy, but someone should tell him to take the next train to hell.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 09:27:40 AM
Lee,  how much deeper can a problem get? At Massillon we need to be sympathetic to the stress and uncomfortable feeling our kids have by playing football for the program? We need to keep them interested by giving them swag???? You need to wake up as well if you don't think that's a MAJOR problem
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 14, 2016, 09:30:24 AM
Is this the same dude that payed for the banners on the visitors side press box?? Then said he wanted his name placed on the front of the building. If so I have heard this guy is a leach.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 09:33:59 AM
I cannot confirm that Firewatch. I do know he was on the search committee for our coach and he played and graduated in 64 if memory serves me right. He stated the year last night, but I was so sick I could only hear him talking about the uncomfortable position and stress out kids are in and under. Oh, and that we need to do everything we can to keep them interested.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:41:12 AM
Done.  Front page article now. 

FYI, general public can read this thread now.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 14, 2016, 09:41:35 AM
All I needed from the booster club was the football I was given at birth. I was a Tiger from that day forward.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:50:10 AM
Is this the same dude that payed for the banners on the visitors side press box?? Then said he wanted his name placed on the front of the building. If so I have heard this guy is a leach.

Note:  this is an opinion and not a statement of fact.

Ron Swartz was a pretty good dude at one point, but he's fallen victim to the black hole of self importance that is the Junior and Senior board of the football booster club.

Don't even start me in the orangemen.  My father was a member of that disaster and clued me in decades ago.

Unfortunately that same organization has destroyed many and very few escape its grip.  BigTime and Execrated are a couple who seem to have been sucked and but escaped it's grasp.  For guys like them, the pursuit to right the ship and make it a positive organization again still seems possible, somthey hold out hope, others, like myself who applied to be on the junior board but later withdrew my application after it was "tabled for rumors", have come to the hard realization that the MFBC is the cancer that is destroying our program and the despite how magnanimous their token gestures and claims to help other sports in the program, they are the source of the rot that's systematically embarrassing members of other sports by the nature of neglected facilities and inadequate resources.

You don't see this level of decay in other programs that don't have this level of entabglement.

Can I be wrong?  Sure, but for all their bluster, I don't see any benefit to this organization and it's my opinion that their interference is on full display...  just see the number of committees and veto power allowed in the last two coaching searches.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:51:05 AM
All I needed from the booster club was the football I was given at birth. I was a Tiger from that day forward.

For $3.99 a parent can purchase a mini-football at Howard's tiger rags and save us a lot of trouble.  Lol
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:59:23 AM
Keep in mind, I fault no one who gets involved with the BC until they themselves become more about self-interest and self-promotion.  I believe 99% of People who buy memberships and donate generally want good things.  I myself was a gold member and gave well over the $100 a year required for that level even though most of those years I literally couldn't afford it. 

I get it.  This community wants to do good for these kids and unfortunately only one member of the community is named Jeff David, so the rest of us need to give $5 at a time and hope there is enough of us that our $5, $10, $35 dollar memberships become the thousands that can do good for the kids, school, and program.  Unfortunately I believe the booster club has fallen into the trap that many great organizations fall into when they become more interested in the image of the club than the stated purpose and reason for the founding of the club. 

I hope they find their way, but I believe that hope may be in vain.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 14, 2016, 11:06:15 AM
For $3.99 a parent can purchase a mini-football at Howard's tiger rags and save us a lot of trouble.  Lol
I was addressing the point of Swartz saying they give the kids all this stuff to keep them interested. It didn't used to be that way.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 14, 2016, 11:11:52 AM
I said it weeks and weeks ago. Maybe the booster club should start giving "free swag" to the fans to keep THEM interested. Throw some Tiger Football shirts, shorts and jackets our way and keep us interested....The product on the field sure as hell isn't keeping us interested.

This all goes back to what I was saying a while back before I was chastized.

Who said weeks ago that these kids, (not all of course) are content with wearing Massillon across their chests?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 12:36:14 PM
I said it weeks and weeks ago. Maybe the booster club should start giving "free swag" to the fans to keep THEM interested. Throw some Tiger Football shirts, shorts and jackets our way and keep us interested....The product on the field sure as hell isn't keeping us interested.

This all goes back to what I was saying a while back before I was chastized.

Who said weeks ago that these kids, (not all of course) are content with wearing Massillon across their chests?

No doubt:  The real question is should the booster club buy a tshirt slingshot to make it a circus act where they can have Walt read the names scrolling on the scoreboard for the heroic act of not getting in the way when someone else puts the whole thing together?

That's what we have to know.  That's what is really important here.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 14, 2016, 01:31:27 PM
If giving players some free shirts is a "major" problem then it's a problem
most sports programs have.   

Every booster club I know of does this for its players. Some more than others depending on the funding behind the club.

My brother runs a highly successful track program in Carolina. It's demographics are very Similar to Jackson and his booster club is very generous in its support of the program. "Swag" is handed out to his players every year yet somehow this doesn't prevent them from winning their conference every year and delivering several state qualifiers season after season. 

I'll stick with my original assessment of the problems.  Notice the booster club and free swag doesn't make the "major" problem list in my book. 

As for the silly comment about "keeping them interested" that's just absurd and on Swartz for making such a claim.

Since someone cited Perrys recent success I'll address one of the real problems facing Massillon. Almost all of the new housing in "Massillon" is located in the perry school district not Massillon. Young families want new modern housing.  Perry's got it.  We don't.

The last two mayors haven't even lived in the massillon school district. Nor have the coaches or superintendent. 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Egret on December 14, 2016, 02:13:55 PM
OK I'm sitting in an Dunkin Donuts in between meetings reading this. Yes Dunkin NOT Starbucks. I refuse to give thos liberal communists one cent of money for their coffee they price by the syllable. I'm reading through all the posts. They are all excellent and on point. It did make me think though. Graber started bitching about stuff like this three years ago. Is it time to let the boy back in the playground? LOL.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Al. on December 14, 2016, 03:08:58 PM
OK I'm sitting in an Dunkin Donuts in between meetings reading this. Yes Dunkin NOT Starbucks. I refuse to give thos liberal communists one cent of money for their coffee they price by the syllable.

However, SB has been a great equity investment for me the last 10 to 15 years.    ;D 8)
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: fyrewood on December 14, 2016, 03:11:01 PM
Graber started bitching about stuff like this three years ago. Is it time to let the boy back in the playground? LOL.
lHELL NO! Who cares if he has a coherent thought once every few years? The FACT remains, he is a complete nut job who is nothing but a cancer to this city, the football program and anything Massillon. If it weren't for the fact that I'm so close to retirement and would have lost my job, I would have beat his ass publicly for what he said and did to my daughter and grandson when he got banned from the stadium.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 03:23:04 PM
OK I'm sitting in an Dunkin Donuts in between meetings reading this. Yes Dunkin NOT Starbucks. I refuse to give thos liberal communists one cent of money for their coffee they price by the syllable. I'm reading through all the posts. They are all excellent and on point. It did make me think though. Graber started bitching about stuff like this three years ago. Is it time to let the boy back in the playground? LOL.

Graber?

No.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 03:27:27 PM
If giving players some free shirts is a "major" problem then it's a problem
most sports programs have.   

Every booster club I know of does this for its players. Some more than others depending on the funding behind the club.

My brother runs a highly successful track program in Carolina. It's demographics are very Similar to Jackson and his booster club is very generous in its support of the program. "Swag" is handed out to his players every year yet somehow this doesn't prevent them from winning their conference every year and delivering several state qualifiers season after season. 

I'll stick with my original assessment of the problems.  Notice the booster club and free swag doesn't make the "major" problem list in my book. 

As for the silly comment about "keeping them interested" that's just absurd and on Swartz for making such a claim.

Since someone cited Perrys recent success I'll address one of the real problems facing Massillon. Almost all of the new housing in "Massillon" is located in the perry school district not Massillon. Young families want new modern housing.  Perry's got it.  We don't.

The last two mayors haven't even lived in the massillon school district. Nor have the coaches or superintendent. 

Don't think you got what he was saying.

BC guy says kids only play because of swag not Massillon, Da Klub provides the swag, therefore player play for Da Klub not Massillon

That's the mentality, that's what the point was.  Also, it's beyond a tshirt or hat at this point, there is much more "swag" going on than they can or should admit.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 04:00:41 PM
I truly hope this opens up people's eyes! What I witnessed and heard is still ripping at my core. What happened to wanting to play because you love the game?! I would argue that's what you got going on at Perry, Central, Kirtland, Steubenville, Scioto, etc. Do those schools have a booster club handing out things to keep the kids interested in playing? I'm sick! And we have to stand up, together, and demand changes
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 14, 2016, 04:12:13 PM
Ron Swarz did play & did graduate in '64.  I knew him and he was a good guy.    Can't vouch for him lately though.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 04:14:14 PM
I truly hope this opens up people's eyes! What I witnessed and heard is still ripping at my core. What happened to wanting to play because you love the game?! I would argue that's what you got going on at Perry, Central, Kirtland, Steubenville, Scioto, etc. Do those schools have a booster club handing out things to keep the kids interested in playing? I'm sick! And we have to stand up, together, and demand changes

I think to my kid and her swim team.  She pays to be on the team (still had to qualify by swimming in a qualifier), pays for her own team uniform suit. 

Technically she got a "free" tshirt and swim cap... after we paid the couple hundred bucks for her team fee of course.

Even without the "free" tshirt, she'd swim.  Why?  Because she wants to, she loves swimming, loves competing, and wants to be part of her school's team.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: F.H. Cicchinelli, Jr. on December 14, 2016, 04:21:18 PM
If giving players some free shirts is a "major" problem then it's a problem
most sports programs have.   

Every booster club I know of does this for its players. Some more than others depending on the funding behind the club.

My brother runs a highly successful track program in Carolina. It's demographics are very Similar to Jackson and his booster club is very generous in its support of the program. "Swag" is handed out to his players every year yet somehow this doesn't prevent them from winning their conference every year and delivering several state qualifiers season after season. 

I'll stick with my original assessment of the problems.  Notice the booster club and free swag doesn't make the "major" problem list in my book. 

As for the silly comment about "keeping them interested" that's just absurd and on Swartz for making such a claim.

Since someone cited Perrys recent success I'll address one of the real problems facing Massillon. Almost all of the new housing in "Massillon" is located in the perry school district not Massillon. Young families want new modern housing.  Perry's got it.  We don't.

The last two mayors haven't even lived in the massillon school district. Nor have the coaches or superintendent. 


Explain what relevance there is to this thread as to where I live?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 04:44:26 PM
Lee, are you a club board member? Because that is the only reason I can see someone try to defend this. These kids aren't just getting a t shirt. Its much more. Not only that, but the much bigger picture is what Slide said. Are these kids playing for the right reasons??? And is that showing in our on the field productivity over the last decade? I want kids who want to play because they want to be Tigers. Wake up Lee
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 14, 2016, 04:59:39 PM
I truly hope this opens up people's eyes! What I witnessed and heard is still ripping at my core. What happened to wanting to play because you love the game?! I would argue that's what you got going on at Perry, Central, Kirtland, Steubenville, Scioto, etc. Do those schools have a booster club handing out things to keep the kids interested in playing? I'm sick! And we have to stand up, together, and demand changes


Not to be a dick B....because I like you....but I said this a month and a half ago and you got pissed at me.

These kids, again....not all, are content to wear "Massillon" across their chests and use it to get free beer, use it to get laid at parties, use it to get whatever the hell they want. How in the hell did this get out of hand so quickly? I mean sure, the kids in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s did the same, but they seemed to give a shit and the product on the field showed....yeah, I said product on the field for those of you who get pissed off at that phrase....I've never been so discouraged about Massillon football as I am right now. We seem to be spiraling out of control.

Oh....and this community has no room for assholes like Graber let alone this site. That stupid ass needs his ass kicked in front of the Lincoln DAILY.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 14, 2016, 05:15:35 PM
Where you live only goes to prove my point about the problem of declining enrollment.  The most desirable places to live in "Massillon" exist outside of the Massillon school district. 

Board member ?? Not even a member.

Just choosing not to blame the booster club and free shirts for latest failures.

I'll stick with declining enrollment, participation and overall decline of the city as my " major" reasons the team is faltering.

Since none of that is going to change anytime soon I guess we're stuck with pointing the finger at the boosters , coaches , and too much "swag".
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 05:21:45 PM

Explain what relevance there is to this thread as to where I live?

I believe some have mistaken optics for relevance.

Graber is the worst at this exact thing and he uses it to push his brand of crazy on people who don't know the difference.

I'll defend Mr mayor in this.  The schools and the city are two different entities and do and should have different goals.

That's not to say they don't have some duty to each other per say, as in this country the people are still technically the boss of the government so the two entities serve many of the same bosses, but not exclusively.

Understand too, by virtue of the Massillon name and the nature of shared costing that is what government is, the expansion of the city into the Perry school district benefits the city schools by making the city stronger.

Trust me, you don't want to see the results of the city standing on online the resources produced within the McSD part of the city.  Cities thrive on expansion, development, and housing starts. 

I'm betting Frank living in the Legends had more to do with wanting to show commitment to that housing expansion and that school district played little to no role in his decision to move there.

Yes, it would be nice to have young suburban family housing developments in the MCSD to draw more families with kids for the school, but two things.  1.  That's not the main function of the city. 2. Where?  Where would you put a legends, university village, knights crossing, or gray ridge estates in the MCSD land area?

That's the hard reality. 

Guess what, I didn't really like Frank too much when he was mayor, I've changed my opinion of him.

I don't really care where he lived then or now, he kept Massillon from the same fate as Barberton, Alliance, Youngstown, Warren, or even SLT's beloved Niles...  and that has had a huge impact on keeping us out of the same football fate as them too.

Frank lives in the city but Perry School district.

I live in the city, but the Perry School district.

Anyone want to step up and question our Massillon Tiger support credentials based on that?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 14, 2016, 05:34:12 PM
Quote
I don't really care where he lived then or now, he kept Massillon from the same fate as Barberton, Alliance, Youngstown, Warren, or even SLT's beloved Niles...  and that has had a huge impact on keeping us out of the same football fate as them too.

He did.
Unfortunately, we now have David Maley as economic development specialist who builds his plan for the city by attracting fast food places. And we have Mayor Kathy Cavernous Potholes in her daily quest to personally decline the city into Nancy Kerrigan  "WHY", "WHY" status....only the citizens, not Kerrigan, are getting knee-capped by Gillooly & the goons aka KCP & Johnnie Full Slate.

Quote
SLT's beloved Niles

GD right, brutha.

Re: Graber

How much alcohol must one consume to want ANY Graber around on a forum?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 14, 2016, 05:34:35 PM
Keith Wakefield thanks both of you !    8)
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: F.H. Cicchinelli, Jr. on December 14, 2016, 05:42:37 PM
There are several new housing allotments in the Massillon CSD:  Autumn Ridge Estates, Castle West Estates, Centennial Village, Concord Village, Forest Hills Estates, Lincoln Hills, Orchard Hills Estates and Woodland Creek.
In addition, with Open Enrollment, where people reside is irrelevant.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: F.H. Cicchinelli, Jr. on December 14, 2016, 05:48:41 PM
Keith Wakefield thanks both of you !    8)

Lee, do you live in Massillon?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 14, 2016, 06:08:06 PM
For the record, I live in a rusted out double wide trailer next to a closed machine shop and Asian massage parlor in Niles. We crap nails and piss Rolling Rock. We invented tuff.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 14, 2016, 06:12:12 PM
This article explains tons of why this program is in the current status that it's in. As sad as Swartz comments are and i certainly don't agree with them, there is some truth behind them. Massillon will always have its die hard core of players that get it but I've heard of quite a few that really don't care about or want to play football for what other reasons, be it focusing on other sports or are just lazy. Massillon football as we know it is dying before our eyes, like watching a species of animal become extinct. I'm no fan of what the MFBC is or has become but understand their stand on this subject. Massillon football is becoming your average high school football program regardless of its glorious past history. Massillon needs to focus on the kids who really want to play football and not beg, bribe or whatever it takes to keep the non believers on the field. I'd rather have 25-30 kids on the team that want to kick ass rather than waste time and moneyon ones that don't. Very sad indeed.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 14, 2016, 06:23:07 PM
Massillon ...that's what all the envelopes of my Christmas cards say. 


I'll be looking for yours any day now.   :)
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 06:24:19 PM
Lee, what about the other schools that have declining enrollment and declining economic stability.... Like, oh I dunno... Steubenville
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 14, 2016, 06:25:12 PM
He did.
Unfortunately, we now have David Maley as economic development specialist who builds his plan for the city by attracting fast food places. And we have Mayor Kathy Cavernous Potholes in her daily quest to personally decline the city into Nancy Kerrigan  "WHY", "WHY" status....only the citizens, not Kerrigan, are getting knee-capped by Gillooly & the goons aka KCP & Johnnie Full Slate.

GD right, brutha.

Re: Graber

How much alcohol must one consume to want ANY Graber around on a forum?

I believe this Maley guy just resigned to take a job that paid a decent wage. I will try to find the article.


Correction: Wrong guy Mike McKee resigned
http://indeonline.com/news/20161209/massillon-budget-director-resigns-for-new-job-in-private-sector



Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 06:27:40 PM
Again, it's the main reason Shep is gone, and the #1 reason BJ got shit on! You think BJ would be ok with that speech Ron gave?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: F.H. Cicchinelli, Jr. on December 14, 2016, 06:42:57 PM
Massillon ...that's what all the envelopes of my Christmas cards say. 


I'll be looking for yours any day now.   :)

Oh, ok.  That's what I thought.  By the way, post your
"MASSILLON" address and Joy and I will send you a Christmas card.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 14, 2016, 06:50:55 PM
Oh, ok.  That's what I thought.  By the way, post your
"MASSILLON" address and Joy and I will send you a Christmas card.
Just address it to the Break-room at Timken Steel, he will get it. ;D ;D
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 14, 2016, 06:53:29 PM
I think the problems run way deeper than a few free hoodies and t-shirts.

Look no further than the current demographics and urban decay settling into Massillon. 

A movement of ex players ??? 

You mean all the ones that have either moved out of state or into the surrounding suburbs where they now send their kids to play ??
Demographics are a part of the problem but definitely not the only, lazy, entitled kids are a big part of it. Not all of course but alot want to ride on the coattails of the former Tigers that laid the groundwork.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 14, 2016, 07:15:37 PM
Damn this is depressing.  :o  Let's watch some good tough nose football.


Disclaimer Skip Moeller game.


Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 14, 2016, 07:56:43 PM
There are several new housing allotments in the Massillon CSD:  Autumn Ridge Estates, Castle West Estates, Centennial Village, Concord Village, Forest Hills Estates, Lincoln Hills, Orchard Hills Estates and Woodland Creek.
In addition, with Open Enrollment, where people reside is irrelevant.


I do have to say, it pisses me off when Coach Moore and his wife get paid the kind of money they do....RIDICULOUS....money....then they go buy a house in Jackson Twp. Our money is good enough for them but they're too good to live amongst us....THAT....pisses me off BIG TIME.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 14, 2016, 07:58:23 PM


I do have to say, it pisses me off when Coach Moore and his wife get paid the kind of money they do....RIDICULOUS....money....then they go buy a house in Jackson Twp. Our money is good enough for them but they're too good to live amongst us....THAT....pisses me off BIG TIME.
Their renting I believe..
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 07:59:36 PM
Exactly right Chief. Again, Shep lived in Massillon and I would be willing to bet BJ would.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 14, 2016, 08:05:25 PM
Shepas was the LAST coach to live in Massillon.

Prior to coach Rose the booster club provided a house in Massillon for the coach to live in.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 08:08:35 PM
Lee, go join the club. Your attitude will move you to the top of  the line! Your opinions are your own, thank god, but not are they way off
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 14, 2016, 08:10:41 PM
Ok, my bad FW....but there are houses to rent in Massillon too.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 14, 2016, 08:14:27 PM


I do have to say, it pisses me off when Coach Moore and his wife get paid the kind of money they do....RIDICULOUS....money....then they go buy a house in Jackson Twp. Our money is good enough for them but they're too good to live amongst us....THAT....pisses me off BIG TIME.
Wouldn't surprise me if they're renting, regardless, ZERO reasons they or ANY other of the administration can't live in Massillon. There in lie's a part of the problem....just saying.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 08:45:31 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if they're renting, regardless, ZERO reasons they or ANY other of the administration can't live in Massillon. There in lie's a part of the problem....just saying.

They are better than you, they are better than the families they teach, they deserve better houses in better neighborhoods.

Do their kids go to Massillon?  (Don't know, honest question)
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 14, 2016, 08:52:35 PM
Who cares where anybody lives?  Would you rather have a coach/mayor who lives in Massillon and does nothing at all for the team/city?  Or would you prefer a coach/mayor who lives in Jackson and tears the lid off and does an exceptional job?  What's more important - street address or performance?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:04:37 PM
Who cares where anybody lives?  Would you rather have a coach/mayor who lives in Massillon and does nothing at all for the team/city?  Or would you prefer a coach/mayor who lives in Jackson and tears the lid off and does an exceptional job?  What's more important - street address or performance?

I'd get it if they lived here before hired and stayed where they lived...  but they moved from Cincinnati and essentially said "no thanks, we will take your money but not live with you."

Especially given that they are renting a house.  Plenty of rental stock in Massillon and plenty of good neighborhoods around.

Heck, I'd even get it if they lived where I live.  It's Perry schools but literally closer to where he works than 90% of the school district land. 

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:07:09 PM
Explain to me exactly how committed a person is who rents a house way out of the district.

I'm sorry, but for 200k+ a year, I want more commitment.

Shepas is the last coach to BUY a house or live in the district.

Shepas wasn't a grifter.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:14:48 PM
Buddyh, it's just one in dozens of red flags in a group that I'm struggling to find an upside with.

Rent
Choose to live away from those who they teach and pay their salary
Wife acts in soft core horror "lesbian love story" movies
Get our program put on probation to pretend to be in the movie "Blind Side"
Brag online about programs they have that could get us death sentence by OHSAA considering we are on probation
Take kids to college games with boosters that are convicted drug producers
Denigrate band kids, player parents, and basically everyone but themesleves on coaching forums


I could go on, but notice of all the things I've listed so far, not once did I mention how terrible they are at coaching football or that they'd need 8 wins next year to meet Moranto level success.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 09:16:30 PM
Shep didnt want kids who weren't interested in playing for the Tigers, and damn sure wasn't bribing them! Shep also wasn't going to bow down to the club!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:19:18 PM
If you think I'm kidding about the obsession with "blind side" they literally put this on twitter today.  They actually mimicked the Tuohy/Oher Christmas picture.  This is unedited, they truly did create a collage including the original picture they were trying to recreate.

(http://www.massillon.com/gallery/16_14_12_16_9_16_08.jpeg)
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 14, 2016, 09:25:20 PM
Explain to me exactly how committed a person is who rents a house way out of the district.
Sure, Spize, the most obvious answer is that he just came for a quick feel before moving on to a college position.  Maybe those types of issues should have hashed out during the "search proce..."  Sorry.  I thought I could get through that without laughing.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:30:53 PM
Sure, Spize, the most obvious answer is that he just came for a quick feel before moving on to a college position.  Maybe those types of issues should have hashed out during the "search proce..."  Sorry.  I thought I could get through that without laughing.

Honestly I don't even have that much of a problem with it if that's your stated plan.  (Moranto for example made no bones about it)

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 14, 2016, 09:39:54 PM
Considering they are told during the interview process this is Massillon and we only have coaches here for 3-5 years, I wouldn't "buy" a house either. I'm indifferent about living in the city you work in, I bet 90% of people on here don't live where they work.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 14, 2016, 09:40:42 PM
If you plan on using it as a stepping stone, you better win!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 14, 2016, 09:58:33 PM
Considering they are told during the interview process this is Massillon and we only have coaches here for 3-5 years, I wouldn't "buy" a house either. I'm indifferent about living in the city you work in, I bet 90% of people on here don't live where they work.

2 of the last 3 coaches were here for 7 years.

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 14, 2016, 10:52:52 PM
Quote
If you plan on using it as a stepping stone, you better win!

At the rate Nate Mooranto is going, he's on a plan to become Head Koach of the Coventry Comets. We'll all take trips up 93 to watch his 3-play offense in Coventry Township. Plus, with Pav's Creamery at 93 & State Street, Soft Serve Cupps and his 47 points allowed per game defense will feel as home as I do when I stay at a Marriott Residence Inn.

Quote
I bet 90% of people on here don't live where they work

I live in Niles by choice. I wanted in one of those 53 Massillon subdivisions Mayor Cicchinelli listed. I love Massillon for 2 main reasons: 1) Any town that can keep its K Mart open deserves respect and 2) My full support of Chiefy Jones, who is an international delight much like the ABBA that blares from Mayor Cicchinelli's house during parties on warm summer nights when the fondue is warmed and the Zima is poured.

After a review with various dignitaries, it was determined that my lifestyle of nightly 7pm Kentucky bourbon happy hour during the Lou Dobbs Show was too tuff for Massillon. I was given a choice of Niles, Cadiz, or Mingo Junction. I picked Niles because it's just tuff.

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: F.H. Cicchinelli, Jr. on December 14, 2016, 11:24:45 PM
If giving players some free shirts is a "major" problem then it's a problem
most sports programs have.   

Every booster club I know of does this for its players. Some more than others depending on the funding behind the club.

My brother runs a highly successful track program in Carolina. It's demographics are very Similar to Jackson and his booster club is very generous in its support of the program. "Swag" is handed out to his players every year yet somehow this doesn't prevent them from winning their conference every year and delivering several state qualifiers season after season. 

I'll stick with my original assessment of the problems.  Notice the booster club and free swag doesn't make the "major" problem list in my book. 

As for the silly comment about "keeping them interested" that's just absurd and on Swartz for making such a claim.

Since someone cited Perrys recent success I'll address one of the real problems facing Massillon. Almost all of the new housing in "Massillon" is located in the perry school district not Massillon. Young families want new modern housing.  Perry's got it.  We don't.

The last two mayors haven't even lived in the massillon school district. Nor have the coaches or superintendent. 


Since you mentioned that most new housing inside Massillon's city limits is in the Perry LSD, I did a little research.  Keep in mind, the following stats are only for SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSING.  (Not condos, duplexes or apartments.)
There have been 1651 new single family housing units constructed in Massillon since 1990.  The breakdown of these homes as far as school district, is as follows:
 763----Massillon CSD
 564----Perry LSD
 324----Tuslaw LSD
1651----Total
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 14, 2016, 11:32:17 PM
And, yet, I was told to go live in Niles, Mingo Junction, or Cadiz.

***
I'm curious if there is anyone happy with the way things are with the gridiron. Cuz I'm not.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 15, 2016, 12:54:16 AM

Since you mentioned that most new housing inside Massillon's city limits is in the Perry LSD, I did a little research.  Keep in mind, the following stats are only for SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSING.  (Not condos, duplexes or apartments.)
There have been 1651 new single family housing units constructed in Massillon since 1990.  The breakdown of these homes as far as school district, is as follows:
 763----Massillon CSD
 564----Perry LSD
 324----Tuslaw LSD
1651----Total

I don't think it matters, you were the mayor of Massillon not the mayor of the school district.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 15, 2016, 01:45:40 AM
To say the districts don't matter because of open enrollment would be false. 

Massillon does not provide buses for any open enrollment students. Add that to the horrible tuslaw location of the middle school and I don't see many kids from perry open enrolling to Massillon.  Have any numbers on that ??
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: F.H. Cicchinelli, Jr. on December 15, 2016, 02:15:01 AM
To say the districts don't matter because of open enrollment would be false. 

Massillon does not provide buses for any open enrollment students. Add that to the horrible tuslaw location of the middle school and I don't see many kids from perry open enrolling to Massillon.  Have any numbers on that ??

The point I was making is if non-Massillon CSD residents want to send their children to MCSD schools, they can accomplish that through open enrollment.  So in essence, school districts and which residential allotment in which you reside, don't matter. 
I don't have the current open enrollment stats.  I do know that in the earlier years of O.E., there was a net gain for the MCSD.  In other words, more children were entering MCSD schools than were leaving.  I don't know for sure, what the current statistics show.  You can get those newer figures by going to the state of Ohio's Department of Education website.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: F.H. Cicchinelli, Jr. on December 15, 2016, 02:25:07 AM
I don't think it matters, you were the mayor of Massillon not the mayor of the school district.

Of course you are correct.  I posted those stats because it shows that during the last 27 years, most of the homes that were built in the city of Massillon were located in the MCSD, not in the adjoining districts.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 15, 2016, 03:44:38 AM
2 of the last 3 coaches were here for 7 years.



Or 4 of the last 6 were here for 6 or less. Moore will make that 5 of 7 unless we are one of the last 4 teams playing in D2 this year.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 15, 2016, 07:01:58 AM
If the levy would pass for the new school on the east side this all would be reversed.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 15, 2016, 07:45:23 AM
Or 4 of the last 6 were here for 6 or less. Moore will make that 5 of 7 unless we are one of the last 4 teams playing in D2 this year.


It doesn't matter. If you're a coach....don't you dare preach to me about commitment, don't you dare preach to me (as a player) about being a good citizen in my community, and then buy or rent in not only another community, but one that looks down their snobby noses at OUR community.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Egret on December 15, 2016, 08:01:48 AM
If the levy would pass for the new school on the east side this all would be reversed.

If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. Those idiots had ZERO chance of passing that levy with the timing. All the idiocy with court, Munford, etc., $5K for a fine and the people of Massillon said go F*** yourselves.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 15, 2016, 08:09:40 AM


It doesn't matter. If you're a coach....don't you dare preach to me about commitment, don't you dare preach to me (as a player) about being a good citizen in my community, and then buy or rent in not only another community, but one that looks down their snobby noses at OUR community.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to find any moral high ground that those people occupy.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 15, 2016, 08:15:50 AM
Hey speaking of moral ground, or lack thereof, I'm at 666 "full support" likes for my commentary.

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Roacher on December 16, 2016, 04:00:43 PM
Uh-oh.  You know what "666" means, don't you?  Oh, wait--I just saw that it went up to 668 so your safe!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 16, 2016, 05:47:51 PM
Uh-oh.  You know what "666" means, don't you?  Oh, wait--I just saw that it went up to 668 so your safe!
And you're at 13, you lucky dog.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: murphy13 on December 16, 2016, 08:02:08 PM
How many of you calling out the coach for not living there do? How many of you actually send your kids to Massillon City Schools? Why would you want to send your kids there when the district can't get a much needed levy passed?

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: WeggieThompson on December 16, 2016, 10:11:39 PM
Maybe they are not living in Massillon because the school district is not paying them 200k a year like the Moore's are getting. That Christmas picture of them trying to be the blind side is pathetic.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 16, 2016, 10:26:48 PM
That Christmas picture of them trying to be the blind side is pathetic.
And it wasn't even the real "Blind Side" people.  It was from the movie.  BTW: if you read the book, Ohr's HS coach was offered and accepted a coaching position at Ol' Miss.  Hmm...
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 16, 2016, 10:31:50 PM
And it wasn't even the real "Blind Side" people.  It was from the movie.  BTW: if you read the book, Ohr's HS coach was offered and accepted a coaching position at Ol' Miss.  Hmm...

You mean you Nate and Becca Moore have been within 3 feet of him at all times on every recruiting visit because they may have some personal motivation?  I thought maybe Nate was picking up shifts just happened to be his Uber driver all those times. 

Lol.

This isn't really all that new, lots of HS coaches try to inject themselves into a kids recruiting process to get a foot in the door at a college gig.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 16, 2016, 10:36:03 PM
Maybe they are not living in Massillon because the school district is not paying them 200k a year like the Moore's are getting. That Christmas picture of them trying to be the blind side is pathetic.

Did you notice they tagged Oher in their picture?


"Hey!! Look at me!!!"
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: WeggieThompson on December 16, 2016, 10:48:16 PM
I missed the part where they tagged Oher. That makes it even more pathetic.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 16, 2016, 11:50:11 PM
How many of you calling out the coach for not living there do? How many of you actually send your kids to Massillon City Schools? Why would you want to send your kids there when the district can't get a much needed levy passed?

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk




I live in Massillon.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 17, 2016, 12:03:18 AM
Has Nate Moore contacted Mooney yet about the opening in our schedule? Or has he contacted Akron North?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 17, 2016, 07:20:39 AM
Based on the pages and pages of coachhuey.com comments from Soft Serve Cupps, John is the de-facto co-head coach of the team. While at LaSalle, Soft Serve won the debate about scheduling inside the "brain trust."

What was the debate about?

Cupps firmly believes in playing schools larger than what you are. This would make sense as to why Mentor was added to the Tiger schedule.*

So, I look for Soft Serve Cupps to have Mooranto find a larger opponent for week 7 and an opponent that we have next to 0 chance of defeating.

Forget the week 7 openings that were found on the OHSAA website. Those teams are smaller than Massillon, the vast majority of them.

The Soft Serve Cupps/Nate Mooranto/Blooster Klub Regime will call the 7 County All Stars. It fits the Cupps thought process plus all of the meatheads in town in Da Blooster Klub,  etc., will approve of it. 7 County All Stars played Plain Twp last year in week 7 and I'm sure the Eagles would bail with only a one-year commitment. If they don't sign 7 County All Stars, they will sign Frau Angela Moeller.

This is my prediction and I hope the hell I'm wrong.


*Can't wait for Mentor scoring 60 or 70 points week 1 against the Soft Serve.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 17, 2016, 10:30:42 AM
How many of you calling out the coach for not living there do? How many of you actually send your kids to Massillon City Schools? Why would you want to send your kids there when the district can't get a much needed levy passed?

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


Do live, did send and if I could do it over I wouldn't of sent my kids there.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 17, 2016, 10:41:17 AM
You mean you Nate and Becca Moore have been within 3 feet of him at all times on every recruiting visit because they may have some personal motivation?  I thought maybe Nate was picking up shifts just happened to be his Uber driver all those times. 

Lol.

This isn't really all that new, lots of HS coaches try to inject themselves into a kids recruiting process to get a foot in the door at a college gig.
I wonder if the Moore's will provide the SAME "guidance" to any other players that are in need of it?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Egret on December 17, 2016, 10:58:45 AM
Only if they are 6'6" and weigh 350 lbs.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 17, 2016, 11:31:54 AM
I live in Massillon, both kids attend Massillon City Schools! I have a right to give my opinions! I voted for the levy!  Any other questions Murphy?

Also, got word last night that a game against St Ignatius is in the works at either the Shoe, or Cleveland Browns stadium. Don't know how much truth is behind this, but it was brought to my attention that the Booster Club is 100% behind this, and that many board members in the Booster Club have a strong desire/support to schedule the big time programs because "we are Massillon". Yet again, just another example of the desperate need to DRAIN THE SWAMP!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 17, 2016, 11:55:02 AM
Only if they are 6'6" and weigh 350 lbs.
Bingo..... plenty of kids that attend Massillon are falling through the cracks and you never hear a peep about them. Playing sports or not, shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 17, 2016, 12:07:26 PM
Also, got word last night that a game against St Ignatius is in the works at either the Shoe, or Cleveland Browns stadium. Don't know how much truth is behind this, but it was brought to my attention that the Booster Club is 100% behind this, and that many board members in the Booster Club have a strong desire/support to schedule the big time programs because "we are Massillon". Yet again, just another example of the desperate need to DRAIN THE SWAMP!


It's not going to happen next year because they play GO week 7. I wouldn't be surprised to see them schedule it for 2018 or 19, since they won't be coaching here then.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 17, 2016, 12:07:41 PM
I live in Massillon, both kids attend Massillon City Schools! I have a right to give my opinions! I voted for the levy!  Any other questions Murphy?

Also, got word last night that a game against St Ignatius is in the works at either the Shoe, or Cleveland Browns stadium. Don't know how much truth is behind this, but it was brought to my attention that the Booster Club is 100% behind this, and that many board members in the Booster Club have a strong desire/support to schedule the big time programs because "we are Massillon". Yet again, just another example of the desperate need to DRAIN THE SWAMP!
Good Lord, please tell me your joking!!  Booster club should have ZERO involvement in any scheduling whatsoever. This is strictly a job for the athletic director/coach....and if this debacle has been suggested by the AD/coach they should be fired on the spot. This is the absolute last thing this program needs right now.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 17, 2016, 12:13:53 PM
I wonder if the Moore's will provide the SAME "guidance" to any other players that are in need of it?

Not a chance.

For example: I can find roughly 8 picture on their Twitter for Thayer (even before they adopted him) at college visits...  can you find that many for anyone else?  Maybe Jasinski Who IMHO has 5x the talent on his worst day than Munford in his best day.  No?

Helping kids with getting college looks isn't about hanging on to the kids with talent that makes them near automatic scholarship players and trying to get yourself a new job out of it...  it's about using your connections to burn up the phones, make visits, etc. for the kids who are borderline and wouldn't get an offer otherwise.

Can we get Jason Hall back?  As much of a pile of fail as Jason Hall was, he looks like Paul Brown compared to the Moore/Cupps shít show.

I mean, if you read Cupps coachheuy posts, he puts down and insults kids and parents who have the nerve to promote borderline D1 players to colleges... at least that's how I read it.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 17, 2016, 12:14:32 PM

It's not going to happen next year because they play GO week 7. I wouldn't be surprised to see them schedule it for 2018 or 19, since they won't be coaching here then.

Don't be so sure, I'm hearing the same thing.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 17, 2016, 12:23:21 PM
Apparently the Mooranto regime didn't notice the ass whooping Dublin Scioto laid on us or that the same Scioto team that dominated the field against us got absolutely humiliated the following week.

Ladies and gentlemen, We'd lose to most of the programs in western Stark County right now, we aren't ready nor should we ever care about the seven county All-Stars.

Repeat after me... "If it says "SAINT" it "Ain't" gonna be on our schedule"

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 17, 2016, 12:52:13 PM
Apparently the Mooranto regime didn't notice the ass whooping Dublin Scioto laid on us or that the same Scioto team that dominated the field against us got absolutely humiliated the following week.

Ladies and gentlemen, We'd lose to most of the programs in western Stark County right now, we aren't ready nor should we ever care about the seven county All-Stars.

Repeat after me... "If it says "SAINT" it "Ain't" gonna be on our schedule"


This isn't a personal knock on the kids but who did Massillon really beat last year? GlenOak, St.V & McKinley were the marquee wins but all were in my opinion, average at best. Nothing about this years team and looking at next years screams out....HEY LETS PLAY IGGY IN CLEVELAND OR COLUMBUS!!!! .....but at least we'll win the "swag battle", this will be assured by the da klub!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 17, 2016, 01:13:44 PM
This isn't a personal knock on the kids but who did Massillon really beat last year? GlenOak, St.V & McKinley were the marquee wins but all were in my opinion, average at best. Nothing about this years team and looking at next years screams out....HEY LETS PLAY IGGY IN CLEVELAND OR COLUMBUS!!!! .....but at least we'll win the "swag battle", this will be assured by the da klub!

The fact that Mentor is on the schedule at this point  (One of the largest D1 teams in the state) and that they, according to folks from Lima, were chosen and scheduled over an offer and ready to go contract from Lima Sr.  shows how out of touch this admin is.

It's like we took the few things we didn't like about Shepas (Overscheduling) and added the things we didn't like about Stacy/Hall (Unprepared teams, bad fundamentals, massive turnover margin, completely predicable and unimaginative offense) and that's all wrapped up in a bundle (plus bonus off the field antics) with the Moore regime.

This is why I wanted Payne.  Was he going to reinvent offense?  NO.  Was he going to have the kids training on fields of nails and broken glass to prepare for Niles?  NO.  He wasn't the next amazing coach, he was the next solid coach who would have us playing tough, smart, fundamental football and playing for Massillon and not individuals.

That's what we need.  We need a coach who genuinely gives a shit about Massillon and not just because it's the name on his paycheck.

That's the only way you're going to fix it.  That's why Keith Wakefield is having success at Perry.  You either have a coach who gives a shit about more than his job(Perry), or overwhelming talent (Ignatius, Lasalle).

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 17, 2016, 01:35:38 PM
This is an opinion site, so what I say is that, my opinion...  but my opinion of this crap isn't good.

I ask myself, if this regime is so great and wise...  do they realize we are a D2 program for a reason and not by choice, which means playing perennial D1 playoff schools 3x our size is probably going to result in a loss most of the time?  Do they realize we will never see Mentor or Ignatius in the playoffs nor will we see teams like them in the playoffs? 

You want someone to test you and show you your flaws?  Fantastic, that's why I was ok with scrimmages with Mentor and Moeller.  You know, when you still actually have time to train and change your scheme fundamentally to adjust for weaknesses you didn't see until they exploited them.

Moore and future coaches... I implore you to STOP listening to the Mayans of Massillon.  The world didn't stop turning in 2012 or 1972.  These old men who boss you around and tell you they know everything KNOW NOTHING.

You should be smart enough to know, you win nothing based on the regular season except harbin points that get you into the playoffs.  Getting your ass beat by teams 3x your size and selective enrollment from 7 counties DOES NOT make you any better.  Worse yet, playing that kind of disparity likely will get kids hurt you'll need when playing teams at your level.

Please allow reality to become a major player in this program.  "Da Klub" and reality are not compatible, they do not exist on the same plane, and they aren't even acquaintances.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 17, 2016, 01:45:25 PM
Don't be so sure, I'm hearing the same thing.

From who ?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 17, 2016, 01:51:55 PM
This isn't a personal knock on the kids but who did Massillon really beat last year? GlenOak, St.V & McKinley were the marquee wins but all were in my opinion, average at best. Nothing about this years team and looking at next years screams out....HEY LETS PLAY IGGY IN CLEVELAND OR COLUMBUS!!!! .....but at least we'll win the "swag battle", this will be assured by the da klub!

I said the same thing after the season we over. We didn't beat anyone last year, we lost to every good team on the schedule. I'd say the last "marquee" win we had was over Steubenville in 2014 and that Steub team wasn't that good.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 17, 2016, 04:53:45 PM
I'd be shocked if Glen Oak signed more than a one year deal with the 7 County All Stars and is playing them in 2017.

Putting 7 County back on the schedule is consistent with the rest of the clown show coaching staff and Da Klub.

I'd rather watch Hallmark Channel Christmas movies than watch our Tigers play the 7 County All Stars. I love the Tigers and I've seen that movie before vs 7 County. At least with the Hallmark Channel movies I get hot actresses trying to keep their career going by doing a Christmas movie.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 17, 2016, 05:01:27 PM
It is a 2 year deal between GO and Ig, it makes sense for GO since they are in the same region and will have to beat Ig or Eds to win the region.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 17, 2016, 05:14:25 PM
From what I discovered,  youse are correct. But here's the kicker, Lakewood St. Edward is open week 7. Another game consistent with what Cupps, Mooranto, and Da Klub want.

The Shit Show as Commandeered by the Ringmasters of Da Klub, Nate Mooranto, and Soft Serve Cupps.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 17, 2016, 05:39:47 PM
This is what happens when the Ringmasters of Da Klub influence your Superintendent of Schools:

“I haven’t backed off the thought process that in Ohio, this is the fourth-best coaching job in Ohio (behind the Browns, Bengals and Buckeyes),” Goodright said. “I’m prejudiced because I know what it means to this town. We get 2,000 people for a pep rally in August before a game is played.”

That is right out of 1970's Booster Klub thinking that still exists today.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 17, 2016, 06:08:29 PM
In terms of salary he is correct.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Egret on December 17, 2016, 06:11:16 PM
In terms of salary he is correct.

And that's where it ends. Believe me.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 17, 2016, 07:36:22 PM
Terry Bowden makes $400K per year at Akron.
Luke Fickell is getting $2.2M per year from Cincy.
Bo Pellini gets $213K per year at YSU.
Frank Solich makes $488K per year at Ohio U.
BG pays $401K per year for Dave Clawson.
Miami's coach gets $400K per year.
Kent pays just under $400K per year.

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 17, 2016, 07:42:20 PM
Highest paid high school coach was my point.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 18, 2016, 10:22:02 AM
The return on the taxpayers investment for that salary is poor. 12-9 isn’t what we wanted and I don't see it getting better with the Mooranto/Cupps regime, either.

I do agree apathetic kids should be weeded out.

But it takes adults to motivate those kids, remove them off the team if they don't care, and teach them.

Our adults are failing and it begins with the absolute failure of a coach hiring process conducted by the adults of Da Klub & school admin who then hire adult coaches who are failing. 

I'm not 100% sure they don't bring this clown show back even with a 4-6 or 5-5 record next year. After all, the people in charge will want to cover their own ass and justify their hiring decision. They can spin anything these days....."oh, we need time to rebuild"...."oh just give us more time"....."oh that nasty website is against us."

And if they don't renew them, you’ll have the same failed adults hiring the next coach, too.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 10:48:13 AM
7199 per game with mck as a home game says it all. Next year it will be under 6500. It's impossible to say 100% but with a poor record and those attendance #'s I sure would say 99%. At LEAST Semi final or gone is what I'll say.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Egret on December 18, 2016, 11:17:40 AM
7199 per game with mck as a home game says it all. Next year it will be under 6500. It's impossible to say 100% but with a poor record and those attendance #'s I sure would say 99%. At LEAST Semi final or gone is what I'll say.

Only one person knows the answer to that. And he isn't posting on here. LOL.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 18, 2016, 11:27:11 AM

But it takes adults to motivate those kids, remove them off the team if they don't care, and teach them.


Isn't that the very subject that started this thread? We all think it's ridiculous that the Booster Club feels they need to keep the kids interested in Tiger football by handing out t-shirts and other entitlements.

When will you people recognize the main issue? It's not the coaches, they have a good knowledge of the game. It's the kids and their lower level of competitiveness. They start playing tackle football too young and it doesn't matter as much when they are in high school. Take away 3 junior highs that competed against each other and merge into 1 was a major socialist move.

That, along with a declining population are the 2 main issues, not that the coach is a buffoon.

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 18, 2016, 11:36:34 AM
Who made the decisions that resulted in the city's decline?
Who hands out swag instead of teaching the kids about Tiger tradition?
Who keeps apathetic kids around that care more about swag than playing football or the word "Massillon" across their jersey?
Who hires the wrong coaches?
Who fails to teach or motivate kids or throw them off the team?
Who insists on teaching kids tackle football in 3rd grade?
Who hires the feeder system coaches?
Who decided to go from 2 middle schools to 1?
Who decides to not properly vet district employees that make "fugged up lesbian love stories" in their free time?
Who coaches the defense and hires a Defensive Coordinator who admits on coachhuey.com that he can only coach a 4-man front defense and not other alignments?
Who hired a baseball coach that possessed cocaine?


Adults.
The adults are failing Massillon.

I think some of youse are uncomfortable with this fact and deflect the problems away or outright ignore them.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 11:37:27 AM
Explain Perry making back to back title games then. Same boring coach who doesn't throw 100 times a SEASON. Youth leagues that hit and tackle and 1 middle school.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 11:49:55 AM
It's obvious to me that it's a combo of coaching and kids/talent. It's the coaches job to get these kids to be competitive and to play every play at the highest level. I think we can all agree Wakefield is one of the most irritating coaches in the state but damnit he is doing something right because there aren't 10 D1's on any of his teams. It's absolutely ridiculous that we can't even win a first round home game and they just went to back to back title games. They have no more talent then we do but their kids go to war every game because of the coaching and the attitude. That attitude hasn't been here since  Shepas and until it comes back we will be continue to watch mediocre garbage football, or better yet not watch it at all.....
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Smitty on December 18, 2016, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: LA Dragon
....They start playing tackle football too young and it doesn't matter as much when they are in high school. Take away 3 junior highs that competed against each other and merge into 1 was a major socialist move.  That, along with a declining population are the 2 main issues, not that the coach is a buffoon.
Quote from: Tiger4life
Explain Perry making back to back title games then. Same boring coach who doesn't throw 100 times a SEASON. Youth leagues that hit and tackle and 1 middle school.

I'll take "The Coach is A Buffoon" for $500, Alex.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 18, 2016, 11:51:42 AM
Tiger4Life....Correct.....I feel the Canton Perry adults are doing a better job than the Massillon adults on more issues.

Our adults are failing. 

I'm all for kids getting run if they are slackers. But it takes adults to show them the door. Why aren't we showing kids the door? Why don't we educate them on Tiger Tradition?

Youse darn well know Keithy Wake is doing that at Canton Perry as he's teaching discipline and Canton Perry pride.

Keithy is old school Orrville Red Riders class of 1967 who played for Mo Tipton and his dad ran a hardware store in Orrville forever. We dislike the guy, and I get it, but I respect his commitment to Canton Perry and his old school ways.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 11:56:21 AM
Thanks for firing me up on a nice Sunday morning SLT !!! Lol
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 18, 2016, 12:01:38 PM
Explain Perry making back to back title games then. Same boring coach who doesn't throw 100 times a SEASON. Youth leagues that hit and tackle and 1 middle school.
Do you remember when Wakefield came back, he set the tone right away. He shit canned half the team. He was down to 39 kids total on varsity. The kids that stayed knew it was Wakes way or the highway.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 12:06:50 PM
I've always been on and off the BJ bandwagon but I'm all on now. It is time to bring back old school Massillon and he is the perfect coach to do that. The problem is it will probably take a "Dan Gilbert apology to Lebron" to bring him here but they better start doing it the middle of October next year.
There needs to be an attitude in this town, We Are Massillon, the world hates us not this nice bullshit that we have watched the last 15 years, letting parents run the show. If we have lifting at 5am BEFORE school have your ass there or quit. The best players need to be on the field at all times, I don't give a damn if Mr QB's dad is crying the blues about him not playing enough or making threats to transfer if you want to leave there is the door. The attitude needs to come back and that attitude starts with the Coach.
 I'll support the team this year 100% but we will know by week 3 what we are going to do this year and i sure hope the people in charge will see that as well.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 12:08:59 PM
Do you remember when Wakefield came back, he set the tone right away. He shit canned half the team. He was down to 39 kids total on varsity. The kids that stayed knew it was Wakes way or the highway.

Not to mention 0-10 in 2013 and again back to back title games over the last 3 years. WTF Massillon !!!!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 18, 2016, 12:13:02 PM
Re: Fired up on a nice Sunday

Hey....I've got in-laws Christmas today....This website along with the NFL games and a secret stash of 101 is my escape today. At least my in laws will have the NFL games on. I'll even watch the Clowns (would prefer the Bengals or anyone else) to escape my mother in law.

But seriously, I love the Tigers and we have an adult problem which results in a kid problem.

As for all the Reno analogies....Reno was a controversial hire in 1983. Coach Hedmond before Reno had turned Big Red in the right direction taking them to the playoffs in 81/82 and he finished 18-4 as head coach before stepping down. Reno took over in 1983. Had Reno not won right off the bat (1984 state title)....would he have lasted? Many Big Red people complained about Reno's lack of experience when he was hired way back when. He never was a head coach before taking over Big Red.

But he IS a Steubenville guy. Just like Massillon, if you're from there, youse get it.

That's what we need now. A Massillon guy.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Egret on December 18, 2016, 12:14:53 PM
I've always been on and off the BJ bandwagon but I'm all on now. It is time to bring back old school Massillon and he is the perfect coach to do that. The problem is it will probably take a "Dan Gilbert apology to Lebron" to bring him here but they better start doing it the middle of October next year.
There needs to be an attitude in this town, We Are Massillon, the world hates us not this nice bullshit that we have watched the last 15 years, letting parents run the show. If we have lifting at 5am BEFORE school have your ass there or quit. The best players need to be on the field at all times, I don't give a damn if Mr QB's dad is crying the blues about him not playing enough or making threats to transfer if you want to leave there is the door. The attitude needs to come back and that attitude starts with the Coach.
 I'll support the team this year 100% but we will know by week 3 what we are going to do this year and i sure hope the people in charge will see that as well.

Great post. And you are right. Dang this is awfully intense for a Sunday morning/early afternoon. LOL.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 18, 2016, 12:30:08 PM
Tiger4Life....Correct.....I feel the Canton Perry adults are doing a better job than the Massillon adults on more issues.

Our adults are failing. 

I'm all for kids getting run if they are slackers. But it takes adults to show them the door. Why aren't we showing kids the door? Why don't we educate them on Tiger Tradition?

Youse darn well know Keithy Wake is doing that at Canton Perry as he's teaching discipline and Canton Perry pride.

Keithy is old school Orrville Red Riders class of 1967 who played for Mo Tipton and his dad ran a hardware store in Orrville forever. We dislike the guy, and I get it, but I respect his commitment to Canton Perry and his old school ways.
  Good points! Discipline is huge when it comes to succeeding, be it in the classroom or sports. Sadly I think this is a big part of the problem at Massillon today. If you have no rules and boundaries set outside of athletics you definitely won't have it on the field either.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 18, 2016, 02:07:00 PM
Tiger4Life, you are spot on about the Perry program. I am also glad you have finally joined the BRING BACK BJ train!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: The Butler on December 18, 2016, 05:18:32 PM
I think we can all agree Wakefield is one of the most irritating coaches in the state but damnit he is doing something right because there aren't 10 D1's on any of his teams. It's absolutely ridiculous that we can't even win a first round home game and they just went to back to back title games. They have no more talent then we do but their kids go to war every game because of the coaching and the attitude.

How sour was the taste in your mouth when you typed that?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 06:50:49 PM
How sour was the taste in your mouth when you typed that?

Not at all because all I had to do was think back to the first game of the 2015 season, ANOTHER Tiger win over Perry.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 18, 2016, 07:37:18 PM
Not at all because all I had to do was think back to the first game of the 2015 season, ANOTHER Tiger win over Perry.
BAM !!!!!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 18, 2016, 07:41:11 PM
Let's not put a statue of Keith Wakefield in front of Perry High School just yet. He's been a head coach for 35 years and has been Regional Champs 3 times. That makes 32 other seasons where his teams weren't that good. Coming into the 2016 season, his record was 175-92. Add in a rare great season and his winning record is barely above 2 out of 3.

In high school, great players make great coaches. Great coaches can also make good players great. But, it all starts with the players and the talent level.

When Shepas was here and we were in the Regional finals every year, he was great. Everyone loved him. Then in 2003 and 2004 when the talent dried up, he was the dumbest coach we ever had by Massillon fan standards.

Massillon is killing themselves developing talent at the younger levels and you guys want to put it all on the coach. Im not saying he, or his staff, are blameless but many of you are overlooking a major issue.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 18, 2016, 08:06:29 PM
Ive been saying that for a long time  LA Dragon.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 08:19:44 PM
Please don't tell me you think Perry has had more talent the last 2 years then we have. I'm not saying it's ALL on the coaches but it's not ALL about talent either.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 18, 2016, 08:30:10 PM
By the way, I have never needed a coach to motivate me to win anything. Not in football, baseball, basketball, checkers, pool, whatever. Same with a Booster Club.

I played with a fear of losing, letting my teammates down, my coaches and my school, etc. I played to dominate and win regardless of any coach. That's called competitiveness and is what is sorely lacking in most kids today.

Wake is highly competitive and when he gets players, his teams are competitive. Playing football to young and focusing on one sport makes you less competitive. I can do a seminar on it. It is the #1 problem with kids in sports today.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 18, 2016, 08:35:36 PM
Please don't tell me you think Perry has had more talent the last 2 years then we have. I'm not saying it's ALL on the coaches but it's not ALL about talent either.

I saw Perry only 1 time this year, a scrimmage against Wadsworth, so I don't know about the entire talent. I did see they have a pretty good Div I offensive lineman who I think was being looked at by Michigan State. The QB was very athletic also, but no one to throw to in that offense.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 18, 2016, 08:41:36 PM
I played with a fear of losing, letting my teammates down...
Damn right.  And that attitude extends into other parts of life as well.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 18, 2016, 09:07:18 PM
Quote
Massillon is killing themselves developing talent at the younger levels and you guys want to put it all on the coach. Im not saying he, or his staff, are blameless but many of you are overlooking a major issue.


The kids don't run the feeder system. ADULTS DO. And WHY isn't the head coach ALL OVER developing talent at the younger levels?

MORE ADULT FAILURE.



Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 18, 2016, 09:25:01 PM
Quote
By the way, I have never needed a coach to motivate me to win anything. Not in football, baseball, basketball, checkers, pool, whatever. Same with a Booster Club.

I played with a fear of losing, letting my teammates down, my coaches and my school, etc. I played to dominate and win regardless of any coach. That's called competitiveness and is what is sorely lacking in most kids today.

Good for you!  But there are diamond-in-the-rough kids that need quality adults teaching and motivating them...along with cutting the idiot problem kids out of the way.

We need better adults in charge. We're not getting it currently.

Who's hiring people like Neall French the baseball coach who got busted with drugs?

Or Soft Serve?

Or "fugged up lesbian love story" actresses in the special ed department?

The adults running things currently are a pile of fail.

This website has pointed out some truly unacceptable things about the current people running the show....and this gets either totally ignored or deflected to "it's a kid problem."

Are we in denial?

People, stop brushing our problems with the adults currently in charge under the rug.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 18, 2016, 09:49:08 PM
Please don't tell me you think Perry has had more talent the last 2 years then we have. I'm not saying it's ALL on the coaches but it's not ALL about talent either.


Idk about that, but I do know that Perry usually has better talent than they are given credit for. All I know is they made it to the finals and, against a lesser team, I saw our linemen getting their asses handed to them by smaller and undoubtedly less herelded linemen. After our kids shit down their legs, I kinda lost interest/got pissed off and didn't make much of an effort to watch or listen to any HS games, but I'm willing to bet Perry's linemen didn't get pushed around like ours did. 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 10:20:59 PM


Idk about that, but I do know that Perry usually has better talent than they are given credit for. All I know is they made it to the finals and, against a lesser team, I saw our linemen getting their asses handed to them by smaller and undoubtedly less herelded linemen. After our kids shit down their legs, I kinda lost interest/got pissed off and didn't make much of an effort to watch or listen to any HS games, but I'm willing to bet Perry's linemen didn't get pushed around like ours did. 

No they didn't because they have a coach that would pull them out of the game by the facemask and sit them on the bench for the rest of the year if that's what it took. Of course here in Massillon we can't have our coaches acting that way or daddy and mommy will go the super or principal and tell them how bad Johnny is being treated. Once again it's all about attitude, something we haven't had in 15 years, except for the 05' team.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: WeggieThompson on December 18, 2016, 11:03:12 PM
Massillon has more talent than Perry. But the talent gap is not near as wide as you think tiger4life. The difference is those kids leave everything on the field for Wake. They block and tackle well, and they actually know where to line up on defense.

Wake is a mean prick and he has never even accepted half blame for for a loss, but somehow he relates better to young men than our young up and coming Coach Moore does. As experts say kids want discipline! And they need it.

Just my opinion but I feel coaching is the problem. It was said in a earlier post Reno is a Steubenville guy and it works. Wake is a Perry guy and it's working. It is time to bring in a Massillon guy. Preferably before someone from this staff gets us the death penalty.


Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 18, 2016, 11:40:45 PM
There are about 467 problems and none of them can or will be fixed tonight. The biggest problem or scapegoat however you want to look at it is coaching. If BJ or Harig or another Tiger comes here and we are 2-2 in the playoffs over a 4 year span we will blame the drop in population and jobs and on and on. The past 2 years with Perry making the title games just increased the insanity here tenfold. There will always be negatives with a staff going all the way back to Earle Bruce, since you can't bitch about 20-0 in 2 years. The pressure here is unlike anywhere else in this state and we haven't even made a title game for 11 years now and then another 23 before that. As I've said before this is a semi final or bust kind of year, I honestly don't feel this staff is built to handle the pressure or microscopic eye that is on this program 24/7/365. There are huge issues that have been brought up by just this website alone in the last 2 months and things like this can't happen here because of the microscope. I'll support the team next season and as a Tigerfan I'm all in but at the same time realistic at the fact that things probably aren't going to be much different on the field in 2017.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 09:51:30 AM
Highest paid high school coach was my point.

Not even the highest paid in Stark County
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 09:56:12 AM
Highest paid high school coach was my point.

Not even the highest paid in Stark County
Explain Perry making back to back title games then. Same boring coach who doesn't throw 100 times a SEASON. Youth leagues that hit and tackle and 1 middle school.
Explain Perry making back to back title games then. Same boring coach who doesn't throw 100 times a SEASON. Youth leagues that hit and tackle and 1 middle school.

Explanation? 

There are about 3-4 teams in D2 worth a shit and right now we ain't one of them.

Kids who play good fundamental ball, play for their team, and have a coach who gives a shit...  well, that will get you through our god awful weak region and a date to get best by Lasalle.

Perry isn't that good, everyone else is that bad.  Including us.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:02:57 AM
Highest paid high school coach was my point.

Not even the highest paid in Stark County
Explain Perry making back to back title games then. Same boring coach who doesn't throw 100 times a SEASON. Youth leagues that hit and tackle and 1 middle school.
Explain Perry making back to back title games then. Same boring coach who doesn't throw 100 times a SEASON. Youth leagues that hit and tackle and 1 middle school.

Explanation? 

There are about 3-4 teams in D2 worth a shit and right now we ain't one of them.

Kids who play good fundamental ball, play for their team, and have a coach who gives a shit...  well, that will get you through our god awful weak region and a date to get best by Lasalle.

Perry isn't that good, everyone else is that bad.  Including us.
7199 per game with mck as a home game says it all. Next year it will be under 6500. It's impossible to say 100% but with a poor record and those attendance #'s I sure would say 99%. At LEAST Semi final or gone is what I'll say.

How much are those number real people and not just habit buying season ticket holders?

I have 4 season tickets.  I've used all at a time in one game in 2 years.  I used 2 seats 4 times and missed one home game.

Of my 28 seats for the seats (4x7) I used 12 and 16 times a seat I paid for was empty.

I'm probably not renewing next year.  Why would I?  I can get inside the 40 yard line just walking up. 

That will be the first time in over 40 years my family won't be renewing the seats we have.

How many of 6500 are deadhead season ticket holder seats? 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:10:48 AM
It's obvious to me that it's a combo of coaching and kids/talent. It's the coaches job to get these kids to be competitive and to play every play at the highest level. I think we can all agree Wakefield is one of the most irritating coaches in the state but damnit he is doing something right because there aren't 10 D1's on any of his teams. It's absolutely ridiculous that we can't even win a first round home game and they just went to back to back title games. They have no more talent then we do but their kids go to war every game because of the coaching and the attitude. That attitude hasn't been here since  Shepas and until it comes back we will be continue to watch mediocre garbage football, or better yet not watch it at all.....

Part of it is wakefield, but part also is that Scott Campbell (Perry's AD) and other admin, teachers, and coaches are actually decent human beings who put the kids first and do their job.

Seriously, we are little better than the circus act in Steubenville.

Look around about what we've learned about these people in Massillon this year...  are you proud of any of this?  Does any of this fit the definition of class?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:25:11 AM
Do you remember when Wakefield came back, he set the tone right away. He shit canned half the team. He was down to 39 kids total on varsity. The kids that stayed knew it was Wakes way or the highway.

He also stood by his own word and didn't have 100 meddlers calling shots behind the scenes.

Wake also has a admin that cares about the school and their jobs. 

Do you think Keith Wakefield is going to take demands from any booster, sponsor, admin friendly with a booster/sponsor, ect.

Do you think the thoughts of the football fathers association have any affect on who Wakefield starts or benches on Friday night?

I don't. 

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:33:38 AM
Re: Fired up on a nice Sunday

Hey....I've got in-laws Christmas today....This website along with the NFL games and a secret stash of 101 is my escape today. At least my in laws will have the NFL games on. I'll even watch the Clowns (would prefer the Bengals or anyone else) to escape my mother in law.

But seriously, I love the Tigers and we have an adult problem which results in a kid problem.

As for all the Reno analogies....Reno was a controversial hire in 1983. Coach Hedmond before Reno had turned Big Red in the right direction taking them to the playoffs in 81/82 and he finished 18-4 as head coach before stepping down. Reno took over in 1983. Had Reno not won right off the bat (1984 state title)....would he have lasted? Many Big Red people complained about Reno's lack of experience when he was hired way back when. He never was a head coach before taking over Big Red.

But he IS a Steubenville guy. Just like Massillon, if you're from there, youse get it.

That's what we need now. A Massillon guy.

People complain about changing coaches too often and point to Wakefield, Reno, and Kyle and say "see, if we have a long term coach we will win more"

That's complete nonsense.

It's not that a coach sticking around will win.  (See also Hertler, Marvin Lewis, ect.)  Those guys win and have their team overachieve not because they've been there a long time, but WHY they've been there a long time.

It's because they WANT to be THERE and actually give a shit about THEIR CITY, THEIR TEAM, AND THEIR PLAYERS.

They take ownership inside and the community takes ownership of them. 

When is the last coach to actually a. get mad, b. get mad at himself, and c. actually make changes to their own approach in the face of a loss?

I'm not talking about being mad at a ref, a player, or a position coach.  I mean mad like a kid on the team that just lost.

Shepas is the last one I can truly say that about.  Stacy never showed it, Hall always blamed the kids "losing contain and not executing" in a very calm post game interview.  Moore doesn't even show emotion during a game, yet alone after a loss.

I mean, this current shit show is on twitter and coachhuey making jokes and talking about dinner within a half hour of losing a game.


Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 10:41:55 AM
Not even the highest paid in Stark County

Numbers to show otherwise ?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:42:38 AM
Re: Fired up on a nice Sunday

Hey....I've got in-laws Christmas today....This website along with the NFL games and a secret stash of 101 is my escape today. At least my in laws will have the NFL games on. I'll even watch the Clowns (would prefer the Bengals or anyone else) to escape my mother in law.

But seriously, I love the Tigers and we have an adult problem which results in a kid problem.

As for all the Reno analogies....Reno was a controversial hire in 1983. Coach Hedmond before Reno had turned Big Red in the right direction taking them to the playoffs in 81/82 and he finished 18-4 as head coach before stepping down. Reno took over in 1983. Had Reno not won right off the bat (1984 state title)....would he have lasted? Many Big Red people complained about Reno's lack of experience when he was hired way back when. He never was a head coach before taking over Big Red.

But he IS a Steubenville guy. Just like Massillon, if you're from there, youse get it.

That's what we need now. A Massillon guy.

People complain about changing coaches too often and point to Wakefield, Reno, and Kyle and say "see, if we have a long term coach we will win more"

That's complete nonsense.

It's not that a coach sticking around will win.  (See also Hertler, Marvin Lewis, ect.)  Those guys win and have their team overachieve not because they've been there a long time, but WHY they've been there a long time.

It's because they WANT to be THERE and actually give a shit about THEIR CITY, THEIR TEAM, AND THEIR PLAYERS.

They take ownership inside and the community takes ownership of them. 

When is the last coach to actually a. get mad, b. get mad at himself, and c. actually make changes to their own approach in the face of a loss?

I'm not talking about being mad at a ref, a player, or a position coach.  I mean mad like a kid on the team that just lost.

Shepas is the last one I can truly say that about.  Stacy never showed it, Hall always blamed the kids "losing contain and not executing" in a very calm post game interview.  Moore doesn't even show emotion during a game, yet alone after a loss.

I mean, this current shit show is on twitter and coachhuey making jokes and talking about dinner within a half hour of losing a game.


Let's not put a statue of Keith Wakefield in front of Perry High School just yet. He's been a head coach for 35 years and has been Regional Champs 3 times. That makes 32 other seasons where his teams weren't that good. Coming into the 2016 season, his record was 175-92. Add in a rare great season and his winning record is barely above 2 out of 3.

In high school, great players make great coaches. Great coaches can also make good players great. But, it all starts with the players and the talent level.

When Shepas was here and we were in the Regional finals every year, he was great. Everyone loved him. Then in 2003 and 2004 when the talent dried up, he was the dumbest coach we ever had by Massillon fan standards.

Massillon is killing themselves developing talent at the younger levels and you guys want to put it all on the coach. Im not saying he, or his staff, are blameless but many of you are overlooking a major issue.

Why would any kid ever bust his ass on any level below varsity for a coach who is taking transfers that played 3 games here to OSU games and not them, posting pictures of him with transfers on twitter and not them, and frankly when is the last visit you heard of the Moore regime taking a kid to a college visit that's actually been here long enough to know the words to the alma mater?

Seriously...  You don't think the other kids on the team and younger kids noticed that the Moore regime settled once Thayer was allowed to play and didn't insist on any of the punishments against the school and team be negotiated or removed?

If Thayer was not moved her for football and wasn't the primary focus of the Moore regime this year... why was his eligibility the ONLY resolution that resulted from the money spent on going to court over the OHSAA ruling?  If it wasn't about Thayer playing football, why is it when the OHSAA approached you with a settlement that only addressed Thayer being able to play and not probation, fines, suspension, ect.. did you drop the case and take the settlement?


Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:43:29 AM
Numbers to show otherwise ?

google it.  Canton Repository does an article about it every year.

Also check out buckeye institute website.  Public employees salaries are public record.  just FYI
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 19, 2016, 10:44:28 AM

The kids don't run the feeder system. ADULTS DO. And WHY isn't the head coach ALL OVER developing talent at the younger levels?

MORE ADULT FAILURE.

Which is why you eliminate tackle football at the very young levels. You'll never get rid of the adults who want to "re-live their days when they were All-American and should have made it to the NFL, but I hurt my knee"........so you prevent the kids from getting bad coaching and getting hurt physically and emotionally, etc.

Play flag football until 7th grade. For the younger kids, have skills camps, film study, bring in former Tiger greats to motivate and teach the kids. Make them hungry for the day they can finally be a Tiger.

I agree with the coaching needs to take some blame, but at the same time, you can't coach kids who have poor habits, low levels of competitiveness and a general lack of football IQ. That's what you get when starting too early.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 19, 2016, 10:45:36 AM
I'm calling that the post of the month! lol
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:49:07 AM
Let's not put a statue of Keith Wakefield in front of Perry High School just yet. He's been a head coach for 35 years and has been Regional Champs 3 times. That makes 32 other seasons where his teams weren't that good. Coming into the 2016 season, his record was 175-92. Add in a rare great season and his winning record is barely above 2 out of 3.

In high school, great players make great coaches. Great coaches can also make good players great. But, it all starts with the players and the talent level.

When Shepas was here and we were in the Regional finals every year, he was great. Everyone loved him. Then in 2003 and 2004 when the talent dried up, he was the dumbest coach we ever had by Massillon fan standards.

Massillon is killing themselves developing talent at the younger levels and you guys want to put it all on the coach. Im not saying he, or his staff, are blameless but many of you are overlooking a major issue.

Perry has always overachieved under Wakefield.  They've also been a below average talent team who's played at the level of slightly above average in a division 1 Ohio system where teams 3x their size and talent pool play along with private school all-star teams.

Since dropping into D2 and playing with teams of a similar talent pool, Perry and Wakefield have played above their talent and the results show.

Besides Massillon, name me one school smaller than Perry that Perry has lost to in the playoffs. (Under Wakefield)

Reality is...  Perry is doing what we expected we'd be doing in D2.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:51:08 AM
Which is why you eliminate tackle football at the very young levels. You'll never get rid of the adults who want to "re-live their days when they were All-American and should have made it to the NFL, but I hurt my knee"........so you prevent the kids from getting bad coaching and getting hurt physically and emotionally, etc.

Play flag football until 7th grade. For the younger kids, have skills camps, film study, bring in former Tiger greats to motivate and teach the kids. Make them hungry for the day they can finally be a Tiger.

I agree with the coaching needs to take some blame, but at the same time, you can't coach kids who have poor habits, low levels of competitiveness and a general lack of football IQ. That's what you get when starting too early.

Agree 100%.  All the learn from tackle football at those levels is the kid who hits puberty first gets to flatten all the other kids who play good fundamentals. 

You ever met a group of kids that age?  Some have beards while others look like they just got out of diapers and may only be a few days difference in age. 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 10:51:23 AM


I'm probably not renewing next year.  Why would I?  I can get inside the 40 yard line just walking up. 

That will be the first time in over 40 years my family won't be renewing the seats we have.


You will renew just like the majority of season ticket holders because you won't want to be left out in the cold if they play a first round game at Perry or maybe even a Hoover if they drop to D2. It's going to take a drop of 500 or more in season ticket holders to make them nervous going into the following year. But then again with #'s overall down everywhere I assume they have already made adjustments to the athletic fund.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:54:01 AM
You will renew just like the majority of season ticket holders because you won't want to be left out in the cold if they play a first round game at Perry or maybe even a Hoover if they drop to D2. It's going to take a drop of 500 or more in season ticket holders to make them nervous going into the following year. But then again with #'s overall down everywhere I assume they have already made adjustments to the athletic fund.

You're kidding yourself if you think that game sells out.

Face reality, GlenOak's stadium is smaller than Perry and we didn't sell it out last game and won't sell it out next game.

The last game we played at Perry I walked up and got a ticket.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 10:55:47 AM
Good for you!  But there are diamond-in-the-rough kids that need quality adults teaching and motivating them...along with cutting the idiot problem kids out of the way.

We need better adults in charge. We're not getting it currently.

Who's hiring people like Neall French the baseball coach who got busted with drugs?

Or Soft Serve?

Or "fugged up lesbian love story" actresses in the special ed department?

The adults running things currently are a pile of fail.

This website has pointed out some truly unacceptable things about the current people running the show....and this gets either totally ignored or deflected to "it's a kid problem."

Are we in denial?

People, stop brushing our problems with the adults currently in charge under the rug.

THIS

THIS

THIS

THIS

THIS
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 10:58:56 AM
google it.  Canton Repository does an article about it every year.

Also check out buckeye institute website.  Public employees salaries are public record.  just FYI

You debated he isn't, that's on you to show the proof. So give us the list of coaches that have a higher stipend and overall salary in the county.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 11:03:00 AM
You debated he isn't, that's on you to show the proof. So give us the list of coaches that have a higher stipend and overall salary in the county.

Are we including Becca's salary? 

Let's not kid ourselves, that's a package deal.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 11:05:57 AM
You're kidding yourself if you think that game sells out.

Face reality, GlenOak's stadium is smaller than Perry and we didn't sell it out last game and won't sell it out next game.

The last game we played at Perry I walked up and got a ticket.

For a playoff game at Perry to sit on the 50 you didn't. When was the last time we played at GO for a playoff game ?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: WeggieThompson on December 19, 2016, 11:13:24 AM
I cancelled my season tickets 4 years ago. Never a problem getting tickets at the gate, even for McKinley.  But I am one of the few who actually likes end zone seats sometimes. When things go bad, I can get my flask out easier. By the way, is that 251lb DE for Dublin Scioto still destroying Mumford?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 11:14:17 AM
For a playoff game at Perry to sit on the 50 you didn't. When was the last time we played at GO for a playoff game ?

You're right... I sat about the 35.  Guess who was sitting 3 yards from me... The season ticket holder that sits behind me at PBTS.

I don't need to sit at the 50... I mean, with cupps defense I'll be guaranteed to be able to watch the opposing RB run by untouched somehwhere in the 80 yards he is running.

Seriously though, I haven't preordered or used my orange season ticket holder card in a decade for away games or playoff games and never once have I not been able to walk up and get a ticket and a decent seat.

That's real.  Ask SLT, he's with me for many of these games.  We get our ticket at the game.

The myth you're believing is once true, but no longer.  It's kept alive by people like those in Da Klub and only because it makes them feel more special and you more dependent.

 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 11:19:46 AM
We should start a thread about all the myths people believe around here...

Like our football team funding itself, our booster club actually helps other sports, we have the nicest athletic facilities in the state, (football maybe, but outside of that we don't even have the nicest facilities in 44646), That we sell out opposing stadiums, That we sell out our own stadium...
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 11:25:03 AM
It's not a myth at all I was stating a fact that to sit on the 50 at a playoff game you need to have season tickets. For a playoff game at Perry or similar sized stadium you need the orange ticket or had someone get you in. In 08' at Hoover and 06' at Perry there were people who couldn't get a ticket and we had huge topics on Massillon proud about the complaints.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 11:29:00 AM
We should start a thread about all the myths people believe around here...

Like our football team funding itself, our booster club actually helps other sports, we have the nicest athletic facilities in the state, (football maybe, but outside of that we don't even have the nicest facilities in 44646), That we sell out opposing stadiums, That we sell out our own stadium...

We should probably also start a thread about hypocritical fans who only like their teams when they are doing great. As I said earlier if BJ or Harig was here and we went through a rough 2 year stretch some would still find something to bitch about. Hell there are plenty of Tigers on this staff now and it's not making a damn difference.  That statement is in no way defending Moore and this staff for the last 2 years only making a point.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 11:36:33 AM
It's not a myth at all I was stating a fact that to sit on the 50 at a playoff game you need to have season tickets. For a playoff game at Perry or similar sized stadium you need the orange ticket or had someone get you in. In 08' at Hoover and 06' at Perry there were people who couldn't get a ticket and we had huge topics on Massillon proud about the complaints.

No... you didn't

You will renew just like the majority of season ticket holders because you won't want to be left out in the cold if they play a first round game at Perry or maybe even a Hoover if they drop to D2.

In 08' at Hoover and 06' at Perry there were people who couldn't get a ticket and we had huge topics on Massillon proud about the complaints.

2006 playoff game is > a decade ago and also before Perry expanded their capacity.  Perry was still selling tickets the day of the game. (I know, I bought some)

2008 game I was at and will dig up photos if you'd like, the home stands at hoover were at best 60% full and you could walk up to the game and buy tickets.

2005 Hoover game was the last I recall anyone on MP or here complaining about availability of tickets.

Fun Fact:  Bush was president the last time we sold out a playoff game.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 19, 2016, 11:36:57 AM
Quote
When things go bad, I can get my flask out easier

We must meet at a future massillon.com tailgate. We tried to have one for the McK game but women from Canton Jackson and lax Spanish punctuality standards interfered. lee did show up, however, at a small McK spontaneous tailgate event that we finally did and part of his entourage verbally brawled with McK fans over thrown footballs hitting their car.

Re: ticket availability for playoff games

I attend games with Chicone La Raza Spizini and we get our tickets at the game. It's never a problem.

Lately because of the mediocre football product, it's been more about goofing off at the games and having a good time than the game itself.

The biggest highlight of 2016 was being at the Massillon KFC at 5:30 before a Friday game and watching old men yell at the cashiers while an overwhelmed KFC team busted their ass serving chicken to a line of 45 cars and 25 people in the lobby.

Massillon loves its chicken.
Tiger Town still can get it done under adverse circumstances.
Maybe we should hire the Massillon KFC Manager to run our football team.



Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 11:38:19 AM
We should probably also start a thread about hypocritical fans who only like their teams when they are doing great. As I said earlier if BJ or Harig was here and we went through a rough 2 year stretch some would still find something to bitch about. Hell there are plenty of Tigers on this staff now and it's not making a damn difference.  That statement is in no way defending Moore and this staff for the last 2 years only making a point.

Read back, I was giving plenty of slack to the Moores last year.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 11:51:22 AM
Look, I'm not claiming to be the virgin mary of Massillon Football here, I have the sins of perpetuating myths that benefit Da Klub spread all over the internet.

I'll testify one of my sins:  I've know about coachhuey and Mania for over a year and said nothing because of football.


I'm saying I've seen the light, done the research, and found the reality and know that the reality is the only thing release of from the death grip of mediocrity.

The more we project the memories of 1965 over the realities of 2016 the longer we struggle and the tighten the grip on our own throats.

I want a coach with the balls to rip down the 25x championship banner from the stadium and replace it with a banner that says "You ain't won crap and noone since 1972 has won crap here. Get back to work"

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 19, 2016, 12:50:18 PM
We should start a thread about all the myths people believe around here...

Like our football team funding itself, our booster club actually helps other sports, we have the nicest athletic facilities in the state, (football maybe, but outside of that we don't even have the nicest facilities in 44646), That we sell out opposing stadiums, That we sell out our own stadium...


I swear I was contemplating starting this very thread. "The 10 biggest myths about Massillon football."

The Massillon mystic has thrived off of these myths for years and the booster club is counting on living off the past for as long as they can. Living off the past wouldn't be too bad if by, "the past", we were talking about the last 4 or 6 years....Not 50 years ago.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 19, 2016, 12:56:03 PM
We should probably also start a thread about hypocritical fans who only like their teams when they are doing great. As I said earlier if BJ or Harig was here and we went through a rough 2 year stretch some would still find something to bitch about. Hell there are plenty of Tigers on this staff now and it's not making a damn difference.  That statement is in no way defending Moore and this staff for the last 2 years only making a point.


I will say that Massillon fans are not typically the kind of fans who jump on when they're doing great. As far as the other statement, I agree, although I think BJ or Harig would do a very good job, just being a "Massillon guy" can only carry you so far, how many, "Massillon guys" have we had on the staff over the years? How has that worked out for us?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 02:40:26 PM


I will say that Massillon fans are not typically the kind of fans who jump on when they're doing great. As far as the other statement, I agree, although I think BJ or Harig would do a very good job, just being a "Massillon guy" can only carry you so far, how many, "Massillon guys" have we had on the staff over the years? How has that worked out for us?

There have been Massillon guys on the staff forever and I can tell you that there still aren't any playoff banners hanging yet. I am all for having a Massillon guy be the head coach before I assume that would or wouldn't work.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 03:56:24 PM


I will say that Massillon fans are not typically the kind of fans who jump on when they're doing great. As far as the other statement, I agree, although I think BJ or Harig would do a very good job, just being a "Massillon guy" can only carry you so far, how many, "Massillon guys" have we had on the staff over the years? How has that worked out for us?

How many Massillon guys have we had as had coach in the playoff era?

Who was the last coach at Massillon that actually played or graduated from Massillon?

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 19, 2016, 03:57:11 PM
There have been Massillon guys on the staff forever and I can tell you that there still aren't any playoff banners hanging yet. I am all for having a Massillon guy be the head coach before I assume that would or wouldn't work.

Central's OC is a Massillon guy.  They had more than 3 plays.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 19, 2016, 06:33:12 PM
Central's OC is a Massillon guy.  They had more than 3 plays.
Is this the same coach that wanted to coach for Massillon's team but the staff didn't have a spot ? Guys got a ring now though, good for him.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 19, 2016, 07:57:15 PM
Some of you guys just make me laugh out loud. The funniest is the fact that we blow because we have a tackle youth football program! Get real bro! The two schools just to the east of us that were playing for State Championships have youth tackle football. They along with Steubenville, Hoban, St X, Colerain, etc etc etc all have tackle youth programs. The problem isn't having it, the problem is who is in charge of it and even more so, who is coaching it!!!

Give me BJ and I will bet each and every one of you that shit will change around here! You want to know why Perry is tough year in and year out? Its because Keith Wakefield DEMANDS IT!!!! He doesn't put up with "I" or "me" guys. He doesn't put up with starters bitching during workouts! He doesn't put up with kids missing practices, film sessions, or workouts! He doesn't put up with club members or outsiders trying to tell him what to do! I can bet you my house, BJ Payne would change a culture here that feeds into all the bullshit Keith Wakefield has eliminated! I want that! I want a kid and a team, even if it's 20 kids, who lace em up each and every Friday night to go kick someone's ass! I want kids who hold each other accountable during off season workouts and practices, because anything less than 100% effort and attitude IS NOT acceptable!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 19, 2016, 08:02:41 PM
How many Massillon guys have we had as had coach in the playoff era?

Who was the last coach at Massillon that actually played or graduated from Massillon?




I was simply talking about assistants. We have a Massillon guy coaching the corners and a Massillon guy coaching safeties....And our DB's were horrible.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 19, 2016, 08:24:51 PM
Some of you guys just make me laugh out loud. The funniest is the fact that we blow because we have a tackle youth football program! Get real bro! The two schools just to the east of us that were playing for State Championships have youth tackle football. They along with Steubenville, Hoban, St X, Colerain, etc etc etc all have tackle youth programs. The problem isn't having it, the problem is who is in charge of it and even more so, who is coaching it!!!

Give me BJ and I will bet each and every one of you that shit will change around here! You want to know why Perry is tough year in and year out? Its because Keith Wakefield DEMANDS IT!!!! He doesn't put up with "I" or "me" guys. He doesn't put up with starters bitching during workouts! He doesn't put up with kids missing practices, film sessions, or workouts! He doesn't put up with club members or outsiders trying to tell him what to do! I can bet you my house, BJ Payne would change a culture here that feeds into all the bullshit Keith Wakefield has eliminated! I want that! I want a kid and a team, even if it's 20 kids, who lace em up each and every Friday night to go kick someone's ass! I want kids who hold each other accountable during off season workouts and practices, because anything less than 100% effort and attitude IS NOT acceptable!
Agree 100%
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 19, 2016, 08:27:09 PM


I was simply talking about assistants. We have a Massillon guy coaching the corners and a Massillon guy coaching safeties....And our DB's were horrible.
All of the defensive position Coaches are under the tutelage of Soft Serve. Any position coach can't dictate to the coordinator on what he wants to do, you follow their instructions.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 19, 2016, 08:40:12 PM
I honestly don't feel this staff is built to handle the pressure or microscopic eye that is on this program 24/7/365.
Could it be that this 24/7/365 pressure or microscopic eye represents an obsession that's just a tad bit unhealthy?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 19, 2016, 08:54:27 PM
All of the defensive position Coaches are under the tutelage of Soft Serve. Any position coach can't dictate to the coordinator on what he wants to do, you follow their instructions.


You don't need the DC's permission to teach your kids to cover or tackle, so....There goes THAT excuse.

Wasn't JP Simon our OL coach? Can't blame "soft serve" for our OL getting their asses kicked.

Btw, who was to blame for our pathetic defensive performances prior to '15? Didn't we give up 300 yards rushing to 3 different individuals in the same season, somewhere in the '13 or '14 season?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 09:11:46 PM
Could it be that this 24/7/365 pressure or microscopic eye represents an obsession that's just a tad bit unhealthy?


For who ?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 09:22:43 PM

Btw, who was to blame for our pathetic defensive performances prior to '15? Didn't we give up 300 yards rushing to 3 different individuals in the same season, somewhere in the '13 or '14 season?


In 2010 we gave up...
330yds Dunn Glenoak
356yds Hymes Warren
242yds Webb Whitmer
 
Bizarre year where we couldn't run the ball to save our lives and couldn't stop anyone.
If it wasn't for Kempt, Smith and Olack we prob would have went 0-10.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 19, 2016, 09:36:11 PM
Chiefy, your totally wrong! And JP wasn't our O Line coach. That is Mazur
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 19, 2016, 09:58:59 PM
34 pages of coachhuey.com told me all I need to know about Soft Serve Cupps. However, most on this website will gloss over that along with all the other off the field issues.

My review of coachhuey.com gives me the view that Cupps is the co-HC here, he only knows how to coach a 4-man front, and in his own words he's just a "slappy" who relies on talent. In other words, he's ideal for private schools with overwhelming talent.

Don't expect him to coach anyone up, outfox anyone, or adjust his scheme.

Also, anyone in for a showing of "Mania"?

Or do we want to run to the former site owner and start a new website where everything is great, your daily aim is to be liked by the powers that be and orange colored glasses are required?

Again, stop deflecting away the off the field issues with the adults in charge currently. 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 19, 2016, 10:05:46 PM
For who ?
Everyone so obsessed.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 19, 2016, 11:55:05 PM
Everyone so obsessed.

Does anyone on here have any health problems that are directly related to discussing Tiger football in December ???
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 20, 2016, 05:09:42 AM


You don't need the DC's permission to teach your kids to cover or tackle, so....There goes THAT excuse.

Wasn't JP Simon our OL coach? Can't blame "soft serve" for our OL getting their asses kicked.

Btw, who was to blame for our pathetic defensive performances prior to '15? Didn't we give up 300 yards rushing to 3 different individuals in the same season, somewhere in the '13 or '14 season?
  Massillon has had a tackling issue for years, that goes back to Hall's anti-tackling techniques. And true, if a kid can't tackle, he can't tackle or he lacks speed, play your best players. Still is on your DC and why all year our did our defenders play 10 yards off the receivers? why was that never corrected? When all is said and done the DC is responsible for the defense...coaches and players. Mazur is OL coach and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Leisure OL coach a few years back?  Cooper's first year of OC was apparently more than he could handle, maybe should just stick to QB coach, plus I think that also falls on Moore's shoulders also. To be honest Massillon played teams with better coached kids in my opinion, not taking away from some our players as some did stand out on the field. Either way you look at it, there's alot of work to be done to right the ship.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 20, 2016, 05:59:02 AM
Seriously? What, you want our corners playing bump and run? Let's see....They played 10 yards off the ball and would get beat by 10 yards....Simple math says if they played bump and run they would have gotten beat by 20 yards.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 20, 2016, 06:01:26 AM
Massillon played teams with better coached kids in my opinion.


Except for the positions coached by Massillon guys....Right?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 20, 2016, 07:37:56 AM
Hey Chiefy, your starting to really upset me with the shit talking about our Massillon guys on the staff. I will take Coach Jack and Coach Jarvis on my staff 365 days a year! Those guys can flat out coach! I would debate that our safeties, year in and year out, are the most consistent on the defensive side of the ball. Did you miss the growth of Kordell and Dillon? Did you see the growth of John Henry? Cory Hildreth? Josh Remark? Bo Grunder? Did you not think out running backs made some serious progress from week 1 to week 10? Have you seen those guys coach? The passion, the overwhelming love they have for the program? I can't speak to the Roddy and Simon situation, but I'm sure the weight room is getting straightened out under Terrance.
It was said that the coaches have to coach the SCHEME that the DC and OC want taught. I would argue that year in and year out our safeties are some of our more consistent tacklers. I would also argue that you probably can't remember a time we played Cover 2 on defense, which requires our corners to get up in the receivers face and re-route them. There are ways to move your corners up and not play "bump and run" Chiefy. Its about scheme, and our DC refuses to adjust it! You can adjust from Cover 4 to Cover 2. From Cover 4 to Man Free. Maybe, according to CoachHuey, our DC is to stubborn or incapable of doing so. But I totally agree that sometimes moving your Corners up and re-routing a receiver is a great idea, and one that wasn't born overnight.
And I will take a staff full of Jarvis' and Hackenbrachts!!!!! Sign me up!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 20, 2016, 07:54:32 AM
The best part of this Mooranto regime is their own corruption mirrors the corruption of the local political machine, or as I like to call it, Johnnie's Junkyard.

Sure their antics will be defended or ignored. It's tradition.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Egret on December 20, 2016, 08:54:14 AM
I'm not close enough to the situation to know the answer to this. I only attend one game a year and I will not do that again as I am boycotting due to the bullshit with Munford and the OHSAA, and all the bullshit antics of our own local LuAnn Tuhey that's going on these days. But I have a question.

Is part of the prerequisite to be a head coach here is to two-platoon? Is a resume' bullet requirement added that says they will not play players both ways? Is the Massillon back-room idiots that smug to think we are able to compete not playing our guys both ways? Just a question as that subject comes up every year.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 20, 2016, 09:02:34 AM
Carlos:

Considering we've had this two-platoon problem for decades, I firmly believe it's a topic that Da Klub and other failed adults use as a job interview screening question/topic.

Reading Coachhuey.com, Soft Serve & Mooranto believed in 2-platoon at La$alle, so it was love at first site. Not a fugged up lesbian love story kind of love.

Speaking of Soft Serve.....it's 31 points per game allowed, oops, 31 flavors:

(https://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/NAFJ7u3h6tN1v4bQUpfkUg/348s.jpg)
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 20, 2016, 09:04:43 AM
PLAY YOUR BEST PLAYERS!!!! See Dublin Scioto, Perry, Steubenville, on and on and on.... I remember our coach saying Perry would get tired because they had so many two way players. That team went to state, and had there been 1 more quarter in our game, they win that. Dublin Scioto's two way players kicked out ass for 4 quarters...
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger74 on December 20, 2016, 09:19:06 AM
For me three things I wanna see...
1. More TEAM speed
2. Better footwork by our Oline men
3. Learning our DB's to find the dang ball when it is in the air.
I really would enjoy it if our Oline men fired off the ball and pushed the defender on his can.
I'm summing this up by saying for the love of god can we ever play sound fundamental football.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 20, 2016, 09:19:45 AM
Who needs a slice? Soft Serve is an entrepreneur. He's a lot like a pizza shop. He makes a lot of dough and always delivers - for the opposing offense.

(http://tdm.vpmidwest.com/dev-jcupspizza/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/07/jcups-logo-resized.png)
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 20, 2016, 09:26:00 AM
Seriously? What, you want our corners playing bump and run? Let's see....They played 10 yards off the ball and would get beat by 10 yards....Simple math says if they played bump and run they would have gotten beat by 20 yards.
So it's six of one, half dozen of the other. You're saying they get beat either way so that's all Hacks fault correct?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 20, 2016, 09:32:47 AM


Except for the positions coached by Massillon guys....Right?
Absolutely not!! This years team had talent scattered throughout. Some coached by Massillon guys and some not but when push comes to shove, your OC, DC & HC run this team and ultimately they're the ones that should be held accountable in the end.... Period!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 20, 2016, 10:14:09 AM
Quote
For me three things I wanna see...
1. More TEAM speed
2. Better footwork by our Oline men
3. Learning our DB's to find the dang ball when it is in the air.
I really would enjoy it if our Oline men fired off the ball and pushed the defender on his can.
I'm summing this up by saying for the love of god can we ever play sound fundamental football.


Well, sure. I agree.

But cleaning up the off the field issues are more important than what you wrote.

I want leadership we can be proud about. No one is perfect but this group is unacceptable for all of the issues brought to light on this website. I have no love for them, not even in a fugged up lesbian love story kind of way.

Call Jeff Harig for an informal interview now and begin a background search on him (something that seems to be a mystery to the current Massillon decision makers.)

Have Tiger4life draft the Dan Gilbert apology letter to BJ.

The district needs to find a better way for doing background checks. For the sake of our kids.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 20, 2016, 12:09:17 PM
Knowing some of these former Massillon guys, I'm not so sure we want to do too extensive of a background check!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 20, 2016, 12:37:53 PM
PLAY YOUR BEST PLAYERS!!!! See Dublin Scioto, Perry, Steubenville, on and on and on.... I remember our coach saying Perry would get tired because they had so many two way players. That team went to state, and had there been 1 more quarter in our game, they win that. Dublin Scioto's two way players kicked out ass for 4 quarters...

Agree 100% !!! Might as well throw Perrysburg, Highland and Whitmer in there as well. Damn 5'10" 160# QB's that kill us throwing and running, then play safety as well and kick our ass. But hey our kids are rested for the 4th qtr already losing by 20.....When will we ever learn ?!?!?!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 20, 2016, 12:40:10 PM

Well, sure. I agree.

But cleaning up the off the field issues are more important than what you wrote.

I want leadership we can be proud about. No one is perfect but this group is unacceptable for all of the issues brought to light on this website. I have no love for them, not even in a fugged up lesbian love story kind of way.

Call Jeff Harig for an informal interview now and begin a background search on him (something that seems to be a mystery to the current Massillon decision makers.)

Have Tiger4life draft the Dan Gilbert apology letter to BJ.

The district needs to find a better way for doing background checks. For the sake of our kids.


I'll start the letter, we need about 10 of us to hop on the jet and head to Hilton Head and not head back till we have the whole Payne family with us !!!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 20, 2016, 12:57:35 PM


You don't need the DC's permission to teach your kids to cover or tackle, so....There goes THAT excuse.

Wasn't JP Simon our OL coach? Can't blame "soft serve" for our OL getting their asses kicked.

Btw, who was to blame for our pathetic defensive performances prior to '15? Didn't we give up 300 yards rushing to 3 different individuals in the same season, somewhere in the '13 or '14 season?

You should really read CoachHuey

Unfortunately my screenshots are on the ipad and that's in Jersey getting fixed.

However there is a post on there where he talks about that and frankly they don't have that option because his defense is all about running plays where they designate who will be making the tackle.

He actually teaches kids to not make a tackle if they have the chance because they are not who was the designated tackle maker on that play.

I'm not kidding.  Ever wonder why our kids wouldn't make a tackle at the line and we'd give up an 80 yard untouched run up the middle?  Now you know.


In 2010 we gave up...
330yds Dunn Glenoak
356yds Hymes Warren
242yds Webb Whitmer
 
Bizarre year where we couldn't run the ball to save our lives and couldn't stop anyone.
If it wasn't for Kempt, Smith and Olack we prob would have went 0-10.


242 < 300
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 20, 2016, 01:06:57 PM
Hey Chiefy, your starting to really upset me with the shit talking about our Massillon guys on the staff. I will take Coach Jack and Coach Jarvis on my staff 365 days a year! Those guys can flat out coach! I would debate that our safeties, year in and year out, are the most consistent on the defensive side of the ball. Did you miss the growth of Kordell and Dillon? Did you see the growth of John Henry? Cory Hildreth? Josh Remark? Bo Grunder? Did you not think out running backs made some serious progress from week 1 to week 10? Have you seen those guys coach? The passion, the overwhelming love they have for the program? I can't speak to the Roddy and Simon situation, but I'm sure the weight room is getting straightened out under Terrance.
It was said that the coaches have to coach the SCHEME that the DC and OC want taught. I would argue that year in and year out our safeties are some of our more consistent tacklers. I would also argue that you probably can't remember a time we played Cover 2 on defense, which requires our corners to get up in the receivers face and re-route them. There are ways to move your corners up and not play "bump and run" Chiefy. Its about scheme, and our DC refuses to adjust it! You can adjust from Cover 4 to Cover 2. From Cover 4 to Man Free. Maybe, according to CoachHuey, our DC is to stubborn or incapable of doing so. But I totally agree that sometimes moving your Corners up and re-routing a receiver is a great idea, and one that wasn't born overnight.
And I will take a staff full of Jarvis' and Hackenbrachts!!!!! Sign me up!

If they would read all the links we have posted to CoachHuey they'd know.

You'd know Coach Cupps openly admits he only knows one defense and doesn't even want to know any other defenses. 

This is how I read it.

You'd know there are X number of kids on each play that are signaled to NOT tackle even if they have the opportunity.  Per what I read on his posts, this includes every lineman every play.

Our run defense is literally this:  Create a hole instead of them creating a whole.  Blitz linebackers into hole.  Wait for designated tackler to make tackle.

That's his defense.  No ball awareness and it's all on one guy else we give up the big play.

Now... I could be reading his posts wrong, but I do have a Masters degree so I've read quite a lot in my day and seem to be pretty good at it.

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 20, 2016, 01:14:46 PM
PLAY YOUR BEST PLAYERS!!!! See Dublin Scioto, Perry, Steubenville, on and on and on.... I remember our coach saying Perry would get tired because they had so many two way players. That team went to state, and had there been 1 more quarter in our game, they win that. Dublin Scioto's two way players kicked out ass for 4 quarters...

We have, it didn't work either.

Honestly our teams the past two years have been good enough to win it all (well, at least until Lasalle, this year that would have been a toss-up) except three areas

Turnovers
Defense  (2015 holds all-time Massillon record for points against, 2016 is #4 in tiger history)
Special Teams (Much improved in 2016 but still pretty bad)

Our offense has actually been up to the task besides the turnover department. 

We've only had 1 game in the past 21 games where we scored less than 21 points. (We lost that game by 1 point)

Imagine what it would be like if we were not giving up 30 a game

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 20, 2016, 02:52:51 PM

Defense  (2015 holds all-time Massillon record for points against, 2016 is #4 in tiger history)



Actually last year was the 6th worst in terms of points given up.
2015= 320
2012= 294
2003= 269
2014= 256
2009= 248
2016= 242

The defenses around the state that have adjusted to the spread offenses, that have taken over football, are the teams that go far in the playoffs. Obviously from the #'s above we are NOT one of those teams.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 20, 2016, 04:15:20 PM
Actually last year was the 6th worst in terms of points given up.
2015= 320
2012= 294
2003= 269
2014= 256
2009= 248
2016= 242

The defenses around the state that have adjusted to the spread offenses, that have taken over football, are the teams that go far in the playoffs. Obviously from the #'s above we are NOT one of those teams.

I was going regular season. 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 20, 2016, 04:26:55 PM
Hey Chiefy, your starting to really upset me with the shit talking about our Massillon guys on the staff. I will take Coach Jack and Coach Jarvis on my staff 365 days a year! Those guys can flat out coach! I would debate that our safeties, year in and year out, are the most consistent on the defensive side of the ball. Did you miss the growth of Kordell and Dillon? Did you see the growth of John Henry? Cory Hildreth? Josh Remark? Bo Grunder? Did you not think out running backs made some serious progress from week 1 to week 10? Have you seen those guys coach? The passion, the overwhelming love they have for the program? I can't speak to the Roddy and Simon situation, but I'm sure the weight room is getting straightened out under Terrance.
It was said that the coaches have to coach the SCHEME that the DC and OC want taught. I would argue that year in and year out our safeties are some of our more consistent tacklers. I would also argue that you probably can't remember a time we played Cover 2 on defense, which requires our corners to get up in the receivers face and re-route them. There are ways to move your corners up and not play "bump and run" Chiefy. Its about scheme, and our DC refuses to adjust it! You can adjust from Cover 4 to Cover 2. From Cover 4 to Man Free. Maybe, according to CoachHuey, our DC is to stubborn or incapable of doing so. But I totally agree that sometimes moving your Corners up and re-routing a receiver is a great idea, and one that wasn't born overnight.
And I will take a staff full of Jarvis' and Hackenbrachts!!!!! Sign me up!


My intent is to create discussion....If it pisses you off....Oh well.

Years ago everyone wanted rid of Kovacs....Then, they wanted rid of Montgomery....Now they want rid of Cupps. Ok, I can see wanting rid of Cupps, his defended haven't been even close to good. Maybe I've just fallen victim to the habit of running off coaches, I actually thought Kovacs was a damn good coach.

As far as you defending Massillon guys, I think you're taking one big blanket and throwing it over ALL the Massillon guys. We've had A LOT, better be careful. Example, you say, "I'm sure the weight room is getting straightened out under Terrance." And maybe it is. But I think you're just saying that because he's a Massillon guy. When I think of the weight room, the first thought that pops into my mind are the smallish d linemen from Scioto kicking out guys asses.

You also got pissed at me when I criticized the players, you can't have it both ways, either the talent is lacking in the secondary or the coaching is. Either the players have instincts and ball skills and the coaching lacks or the talent just isn't there to coach. Pick one.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 20, 2016, 04:31:09 PM
If they would read all the links we have posted to CoachHuey they'd know.

You'd know Coach Cupps openly admits he only knows one defense and doesn't even want to know any other defenses. 

This is how I read it.

You'd know there are X number of kids on each play that are signaled to NOT tackle even if they have the opportunity.  Per what I read on his posts, this includes every lineman every play.

Our run defense is literally this:  Create a hole instead of them creating a whole.  Blitz linebackers into hole.  Wait for designated tackler to make tackle.

That's his defense.  No ball awareness and it's all on one guy else we give up the big play.

Now... I could be reading his posts wrong, but I do have a Masters degree so I've read quite a lot in my day and seem to be pretty good at it.




Ball awareness is on the player, not the coach. If this is true what you are saying about a designated tackler, and I'm not doubting you, I just haven't seen it with my own two eyes, this whole staff needs fired IMMEDIATELY.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 20, 2016, 04:40:26 PM


My intent is to create discussion....If it pisses you off....Oh well.

Years ago everyone wanted rid of Kovacs....Then, they wanted rid of Montgomery....Now they want rid of Cupps. Ok, I can see wanting rid of Cupps, his defended haven't been even close to good. Maybe I've just fallen victim to the habit of running off coaches, I actually thought Kovacs was a damn good coach.

As far as you defending Massillon guys, I think you're taking one big blanket and throwing it over ALL the Massillon guys. We've had A LOT, better be careful. Example, you say, "I'm sure the weight room is getting straightened out under Terrance." And maybe it is. But I think you're just saying that because he's a Massillon guy. When I think of the weight room, the first thought that pops into my mind are the smallish d linemen from Scioto kicking out guys asses.

You also got pissed at me when I criticized the players, you can't have it both ways, either the talent is lacking in the secondary or the coaching is. Either the players have instincts and ball skills and the coaching lacks or the talent just isn't there to coach. Pick one.

No

This is the argument of "We keep running off coaches so we don't win" or "Difference coaches same result"

Reality is, it's not these guys fault as much as it is the fault of the people hiring.

Remember:

Stacy had a limited HC history and what was there didn't impress

Hall was a desperation move.  There really wasn't much out there and the few quality coaches we thought could be had didn't want anything to with us.  Hall was ok, but this isn't a city or program where "OK" is what we are looking for.

Moore was even more of a desperation move.  We created the situation that made us desperate by having 800 button pushers with veto authority over each other and it turned into a circus.

Clearly nobody vetted these people. 

The Moore and Hall hiring were both "white knight" "why would they come here" and "we stole a good coach from another program" backroom deals. 

Our best and brightest crapped all over BJ Payne and 5 other quality coaches who are out there winning right now and focused on Reardon who is awful and was awful out in Colorado and ended up with the Nate Moore, Cupps, Mania shit show.

These are the same people making the calls folks.  They create desperation and come in on a white horse to save us from...  well, them...  and we fall for it.  Over and over.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 20, 2016, 07:00:03 PM
Unfortunately those people aren't going anywhere, and other then not spending any $ on Tiger football, there isn't a damn thing any of us "outsiders/fans" can do.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 20, 2016, 07:17:46 PM
I'll start the letter, we need about 10 of us to hop on the jet and head to Hilton Head and not head back till we have the whole Payne family with us !!!

I'll be there the first week of April, I'll take it down.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 20, 2016, 09:00:04 PM
I'll be there the first week of April, I'll take it down.

I'll be there the first week in June, I'll bring them all home !!!!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 20, 2016, 09:00:32 PM
Does anyone on here have any health problems that are directly related to discussing Tiger football in December ???
I was responding to your post that some people are obsessed 24/7/365 with Massillon HS football.  That doesn't sound mentally healthy to me.  But it was your post, not mine.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 20, 2016, 09:08:02 PM


My intent is to create discussion....If it pisses you off....Oh well.

Years ago everyone wanted rid of Kovacs....Then, they wanted rid of Montgomery....Now they want rid of Cupps. Ok, I can see wanting rid of Cupps, his defended haven't been even close to good. Maybe I've just fallen victim to the habit of running off coaches, I actually thought Kovacs was a damn good coach.

As far as you defending Massillon guys, I think you're taking one big blanket and throwing it over ALL the Massillon guys. We've had A LOT, better be careful. Example, you say, "I'm sure the weight room is getting straightened out under Terrance." And maybe it is. But I think you're just saying that because he's a Massillon guy. When I think of the weight room, the first thought that pops into my mind are the smallish d linemen from Scioto kicking out guys asses.

You also got pissed at me when I criticized the players, you can't have it both ways, either the talent is lacking in the secondary or the coaching is. Either the players have instincts and ball skills and the coaching lacks or the talent just isn't there to coach. Pick one.

Bro, it's not at all about picking one! Can't you see that? I've tried to explain it to you in the simplest of football terminology. Let me try again! Coach Hack is coaching his safeties in Coach Cupps scheme!!! As I stated, and you skipped over, I would argue with you that the safety position has been the best coaches and most consistent over the years. I've given you examples of that! I'm not trying to have it both ways. I criticized you about paying for the product on the field statement. I still do. The product on the field starts with the people in charge of that product!!! The coaching pyramid goes like this... Head Coach to the Coordinators to the position coaches. Those position coaches must teach the Coordinators scheme, or they won't be assistants for much longer.
Terrance is doing a much better job than our previous strength coaches! I know that, definitely not just assuming it. You can look at the strides made in the weight kids are throwing around now compared to years previous. However, I can take a kid who may not be as strong and get him to kick someone's ass. That has nothing to do with the strength of a weight room. It does have everything to do with the coaching, technique, and strength of heart and pride.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 21, 2016, 01:13:39 AM
Unfortunately those people aren't going anywhere, and other then not spending any $ on Tiger football, there isn't a damn thing any of us "outsiders/fans" can do.
Unfortunately if this trend continues the program will consume itself. The old guard is almost gone, you'll always have players families attending and a mediocre student section but the big crowds are dropping every year. Sadly, unless something changes, Massillon football will become just another local Friday night football game instead of the event that it used to be.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Buddy on December 21, 2016, 01:49:13 AM
Seems to me that the place to start is to replace those that makes the decision on who to bring to the school board to be hired. 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 21, 2016, 02:16:37 AM
Unfortunately if this trend continues the program will consume itself. The old guard is almost gone, you'll always have players families attending and a mediocre student section but the big crowds are dropping every year. Sadly, unless something changes, Massillon football will become just another local Friday night football game instead of the event that it used to be.

Winning changes everything !
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 21, 2016, 06:09:24 AM
Winning changes everything !
Very true!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Buddy on December 21, 2016, 06:33:41 AM
So very true, unfortunately.  By that I mean winning more than just one year. 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 21, 2016, 07:46:31 AM
Winning is great but the off the field behavior which gets ignored by most people is totally unacceptable.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 21, 2016, 09:21:37 AM
Seems to me that the place to start is to replace those that makes the decision on who to bring to the school board to be hired. 

The school board has the final say on who is and isn't hired.

The board is held accountable by the voters of Massillon.  If they continue to elect puppets of the booster club nothing will ever change.

Looking at the current situation I'd be thinking long and hard about re-electing anyone on the current board. I think Massillon is long overdue for a real superintendent and athletic director.

If you didn't notice the current super is just an extension of the puppet show.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 21, 2016, 10:30:45 AM
Winning is great but the off the field behavior which gets ignored by most people is totally unacceptable.

If we won the title this year this topic doesn't get started and anyone that brought up anything negative would be vilified daily.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 21, 2016, 10:49:45 AM
Winning is great but the off the field behavior which gets ignored by most people is totally unacceptable.


Agreed....Including coaches.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 21, 2016, 05:00:41 PM
No response to my last post Chiefy? I like you brother, but I think you need to better understand what I'm trying to convey
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 21, 2016, 07:27:52 PM
The school board has the final say on who is and isn't hired.

The board is held accountable by the voters of Massillon.  If they continue to elect puppets of the booster club nothing will ever change.

Looking at the current situation I'd be thinking long and hard about re-electing anyone on the current board. I think Massillon is long overdue for a real superintendent and athletic director.

If you didn't notice the current super is just an extension of the puppet show.
This isn't necessarily true. Two new board members, which in my opinion are pretty decent guys, just recently joined. The damage we are witnessing has been in place for some time. Now...... Hopefully with new blood the board will start making decisions to benefit the taxpayers of Massillon and not da klub.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 21, 2016, 08:05:12 PM
Bro, it's not at all about picking one! Can't you see that? I've tried to explain it to you in the simplest of football terminology. Let me try again! Coach Hack is coaching his safeties in Coach Cupps scheme!!! As I stated, and you skipped over, I would argue with you that the safety position has been the best coaches and most consistent over the years. I've given you examples of that! I'm not trying to have it both ways. I criticized you about paying for the product on the field statement. I still do. The product on the field starts with the people in charge of that product!!! The coaching pyramid goes like this... Head Coach to the Coordinators to the position coaches. Those position coaches must teach the Coordinators scheme, or they won't be assistants for much longer.
Terrance is doing a much better job than our previous strength coaches! I know that, definitely not just assuming it. You can look at the strides made in the weight kids are throwing around now compared to years previous. However, I can take a kid who may not be as strong and get him to kick someone's ass. That has nothing to do with the strength of a weight room. It does have everything to do with the coaching, technique, and strength of heart and pride.


No need to talk down to me, just because we disagree doesn't make me a moron. I understand about them coaching in Cupps scheme, I really do, but this WHOLE debacle we call Massillon football can't be blamed on Cupps. I've seen our DBs let receivers run past them, I've seen them out of position I've seen them miss tackles.
If our run defense wasn't so bad I think you'd see more damage done through the air, but nobody has to really throw the ball against us now do they? To be honest, this has went a little further than I wanted it to. My only point was that just hiring a "Massillon guy" isn't the simple fix. You seem to be defending the name Massillon, and I get that, I've done it for years myself....But I'm done. I'm gonna call things as I see them from here on out, if someone doesn't like it, oh well. You say Roddy is doing a better job than previous strength coaches, and again, he may be, I didn't see it translate to the field this season. Where are all those kids you say you can make kick someone's ass despite a strength mismatch? Do we have those kids anymore? I will post more later.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 21, 2016, 08:25:23 PM
This isn't necessarily true. Two new board members, which in my opinion are pretty decent guys, just recently joined. The damage we are witnessing has been in place for some time. Now...... Hopefully with new blood the board will start making decisions to benefit the taxpayers of Massillon and not da klub.
Well I will say it Get rid of Ron Pribich he is the biggest cancer on that board.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 21, 2016, 08:36:46 PM


No need to talk down to me, just because we disagree doesn't make me a moron. I understand about them coaching in Cupps scheme, I really do, but this WHOLE debacle we call Massillon football can't be blamed on Cupps. I've seen our DBs let receivers run past them, I've seen them out of position I've seen them miss tackles.
If our run defense wasn't so bad I think you'd see more damage done through the air, but nobody has to really throw the ball against us now do they? To be honest, this has went a little further than I wanted it to. My only point was that just hiring a "Massillon guy" isn't the simple fix. You seem to be defending the name Massillon, and I get that, I've done it for years myself....But I'm done. I'm gonna call things as I see them from here on out, if someone doesn't like it, oh well. You say Roddy is doing a better job than previous strength coaches, and again, he may be, I didn't see it translate to the field this season. Where are all those kids you say you can make kick someone's ass despite a strength mismatch? Do we have those kids anymore? I will post more later.
Chiefy in my opinion the problem lies in the youth of Massillon today. Totally different from what there used to be..

From the 40's through the 80's we had a roster of 100 kids, out of that 100 you had 60 ass kickers. Bo Grunder type kids and 40 or so hangers on.

From the 90's till about 2005 you had that same roster of 100 but the number of ass kickers dropped to about 30.
2010 till present day you have a roster of about 90 kids, of which you might have 10 ass kickers, 10 decent kids and 10 that try there ass off but just lack talent. The other 60 are there for the perks.

And the decline started when they fucked up the middle school feeder program.

Thank you for your time in this matter.. 8)
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: brm12 on December 21, 2016, 08:40:11 PM
Firewatch, you wouldn't have all the kids who just want the free swag handouts if the booster club didn't feel it was necessary to provide them
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 21, 2016, 08:45:30 PM
Good points FW, also I remember when it was predominately seniors and a hand full of juniors starting. You could be an exceptional sophomore and you'd get some playing time, but you wouldn't start....Very very rarely. NOW we have Freshmen starting.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: chiefy jones on December 21, 2016, 08:52:53 PM
We live in a society where the people these kids want to emulate are guys who, when they score a TD, selfishly do something in "look at me" fashion and cost their team 15 yards. Guys who, won't take a 3/4 court shot at the end of a quarter because it will hurt their stats.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 21, 2016, 08:53:13 PM
And the decline started when they fucked up the middle school feeder program.
Exactly.  You can still see among us old guys on here that the East side (Longfellow) vs. West side (Lorin Andrews) rivalry was deeply ingrained and served us well.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 21, 2016, 09:47:46 PM
I agree about the middle school to an extent but all this ass kicker talk is funny since we have won as many state titles before the school opened as we did when there were 2 jr highs.....
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 21, 2016, 09:58:31 PM
I agree about the middle school to an extent but all this ass kicker talk is funny since we have won as many state titles before the school opened as we did when there were 2 jr highs.....
Winning state titles isn't the point, the big private schools screwed that up. I'm talking about when teams didn't want to come to PBTS because they knew they were in for a beat down. Hell the way it is now teams love coming here to play. It's a freakin joke. What years did you play T4L???
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 21, 2016, 10:12:19 PM
Well I will say it Get rid of Nick Pribich he is the biggest cancer on that board.
Bingo!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 21, 2016, 10:15:59 PM
Winning state titles isn't the point, the big private schools screwed that up. I'm talking about when teams didn't want to come to PBTS because they knew they were in for a beat down. Hell the way it is now teams love coming here to play. It's a freakin joke. What years did you play T4L???
With two junior highs, it gave you two full starting teams going into high school which in turn made you work that much harder to become the stater or even make varsity. Made for some mean sum bitches.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Buddy on December 21, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
Well I will say it Get rid of Nick Pribich he is the biggest cancer on that board.


Is Nick on the school board?  I thought that was Ron Pribich on the board, I may be mistaken.  Ron was involved in the coaches search, I didn't know Nick was.  I can't remember a time when there wasn't at least a few of the booster klub members on the school board.  Seems like it's always been that way, but the people keep electing them so ....?   They must be doing something right to keep being re-elected. 
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Egret on December 21, 2016, 10:20:50 PM
Well I will say it Get rid of Nick Pribich he is the biggest cancer on that board.

2nd.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Buddy on December 21, 2016, 10:37:04 PM
Are any of the current board up for re-election this year?  IDK
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 21, 2016, 10:45:04 PM
Well I will say it Get rid of Nick Pribich he is the biggest cancer on that board.


You could if he was on the BOE. That is Ron, along with
Tom Radel
Liz Hershey
Mary Strukel
John Paquelet
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 21, 2016, 10:46:03 PM
Quote
I can't remember a time when there wasn't at least a few of the booster klub members on the school board.  Seems like it's always been that way, but the people keep electing them so ....?   They must be doing something right to keep being re-elected.

GOOD LORD Massillon voters are dumb.....they vote the Full Johnnie Maier Ticket and elect Kathy Cavernous Potholes,

Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 21, 2016, 10:50:27 PM
Winning state titles isn't the point,

It isn't ??? Then why in the hell are we talking about high school football in December then ??? Winning a state title is all that matters. If we would have won it this year Moore could coach here forever and Cupps would be a hero ! Winning changes everything !!!
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 21, 2016, 10:59:48 PM
Then why in the hell are we talking about high school football in December then ???
Because you are obsessed...
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 21, 2016, 11:31:20 PM

Is Nick on the school board?  I thought that was Ron Pribich on the board, I may be mistaken.  Ron was involved in the coaches search, I didn't know Nick was.  I can't remember a time when there wasn't at least a few of the booster klub members on the school board.  Seems like it's always been that way, but the people keep electing them so ....?   They must be doing something right to keep being re-elected. 
Your right it is Ron my mistake.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Firewatch on December 21, 2016, 11:39:24 PM
It isn't ??? Then why in the hell are we talking about high school football in December then ??? Winning a state title is all that matters. If we would have won it this year Moore could coach here forever and Cupps would be a hero ! Winning changes everything !!!
You are starting to try my patience. Let's clear this up, Our program is in no way shape or form ready to win a title currently. The coaches are trying to coach kids who simply are not football smart. Which is a result of screwing up the feeder system.

Now, go hump Chiefy some more or better yet answer my question that you seemed to have missed. When did you play for Massillon.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 22, 2016, 02:27:49 AM
You are starting to try my patients. Let's clear this up, Our program is in no way shape or form ready to win a title currently. The coaches are trying to coach kids who simply are not football smart. Which is a result of screwing up the feeder system.

Now, go hump Chiefy some more or better yet answer my question that you seemed to have missed. When did you play for Massillon.

Or patience, genius. I didn't miss the question at all, I didn't know I was obligated to answer questions from you. Go jump on big brothers back for some praise.
Back to the topic at hand, from the looks of our region it wouldn't take much to actually get to the title game. Perry did it with throwing about 20 passes in 10 playoff games. I'll say it again, winning changes everything. If we would have made it to the title game this year and lost to LaSalle, we wouldn't be having 90% of these discussions right now. No coach Huey or lesbian sex movies or blind side sequels. Hall was able to get this team to a semi final in D1 so it certainly isn't impossible, especially in this div and region.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Tiger4life on December 22, 2016, 02:31:34 AM
Because you are obsessed...

Your right, damnit I didn't even realize that all of the 249 replies and 3,655 views on this topic are ALL mine. Stick to politics and the good old days and don't worry about me.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Hillary's Legal Team on December 22, 2016, 06:38:35 AM
Quote
Let's clear this up, Our program is in no way shape or form ready to win a title currently. The coaches are trying to coach kids who simply are not football smart. Which is a result of screwing up the feeder system.

Let's make this clear: the Mooranto regime is unfit to lead kids due to off the field issues and should be removed.

I'll take a new coach to restore integrity and remove the cancerous elements of the program.

That includes:

*No posting mind-blowing comments on coachhuey.com
*No association with drug producers
*No making of soft core horror films
*No OHSAA fines
*No OHSAA probation
*No association with AJ Hodel
*No input whatsoever from Da Klub

Integrity and education of the kids is more important than winning. In fact, you get your house cleaned up with the adult corruption, the winning will follow anyways. Restoring integrity and an educational priority will result in a much better winning product than the corrupt mediocrity we currently have.

We have a culture now where the off the field embarrassing behavior is getting ignored. 90% of people here don't comment about it and focus on wins/losses only or deflect the topic.

The culture is one of taking shortcuts and that doesn't result in integrity but constant off the field issues. Doing the right thing and the hard work will bring winning.

It takes a special group of intelligent leaders which means great educators with a strong moral compass.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: tiger pride on December 22, 2016, 09:25:50 AM
Or patience, genius. I didn't miss the question at all, I didn't know I was obligated to answer questions from you. Go jump on big brothers back for some praise.
Back to the topic at hand, from the looks of our region it wouldn't take much to actually get to the title game. Perry did it with throwing about 20 passes in 10 playoff games. I'll say it again, winning changes everything. If we would have made it to the title game this year and lost to LaSalle, we wouldn't be having 90% of these discussions right now. No coach Huey or lesbian sex movies or blind side sequels. Hall was able to get this team to a semi final in D1 so it certainly isn't impossible, especially in this div and region.
Sure sounds easy enough doesn't it? If's and but's don't add up to anything. Unfortunately for Massillon nothing seems to come easy. There is nothing on paper to remotely thinking we have a chance to duplicate the success of Perry's past two years. Biggest reason....Perry doesn't deal with the off of the field antics of its staff and constant interference of Da meddling Klub. Massillon is its own worst enemy, SLT is correct on his statement about all the off the field discrepancies that need corrected before we'll ever see the results everybody wants on the field. Let's make Massillon great again.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: LA Dragon on December 22, 2016, 11:19:41 AM


You could if he was on the BOE. That is Ron, along with
Tom Radel
Liz Hershey
Mary Strukel
John Paquelet

Wait a minute!  Is this the John "Bud" Paquelet that was recently in the news for felonious activities? He is on the school board?
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: lee on December 22, 2016, 11:21:52 AM
No ... different guy.

Bud's first name is Joe not John.
Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: Spize on December 22, 2016, 10:28:22 PM
Or patience, genius. I didn't miss the question at all, I didn't know I was obligated to answer questions from you. Go jump on big brothers back for some praise.
Back to the topic at hand, from the looks of our region it wouldn't take much to actually get to the title game. Perry did it with throwing about 20 passes in 10 playoff games. I'll say it again, winning changes everything. If we would have made it to the title game this year and lost to LaSalle, we wouldn't be having 90% of these discussions right now. No coach Huey or lesbian sex movies or blind side sequels. Hall was able to get this team to a semi final in D1 so it certainly isn't impossible, especially in this div and region.

Yes, and notice we best Perry last year.  Should speak volumes.

Here's what I'm saying.  Perry has less talent.  That's not even a question. 

Perry has consistent coaching.
Perry has few, if any, off the field distractions. 
Perry has little to no booster interference.  Is their booster club still called the football dads? 
Their support organizations are overseen by the athletic department, our athletic department is overseen by the booster club.
Perry's athletic director and his wife are some of the classiest people you'd hope to meet.

All these things we always say we need to remove from our program?  Perry doesn't have them.


Title: Re: MUST READ!!!
Post by: buddyh on December 22, 2016, 10:44:59 PM
Your right, damnit I didn't even realize that all of the 249 replies and 3,655 views on this topic are ALL mine. Stick to politics and the good old days and don't worry about me.
It was a joke.  I say a joke, son.  But I'll take your advice, stick to politics and the good old days (otherwise known as history), leave you to HS football, and console myself that I have at least double the trajectory that you have.