Everything Else => Front Page Articles => Topic started by: Spize on February 26, 2017, 11:57:17 PM

Title: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Spize on February 26, 2017, 11:57:17 PM
Lots of doom and gloom, lots of rats jumping from the deck of the titanic....  As some would say... 
(http://www.history.com/s3static/video-thumbnails/AETN-History_Prod/73/831/History_Speeches_6001_Titanic_Survivor_Eyewitness_still_624x352.jpg)
However I do have to ask, could 2017 actually turn out to be a year we contend?

Stranger things have happened.  There were a lot of doubts anything could be done right after 2004, but then 2005 happened and suddenly warm and fuzzy was back.

I'm going to toss this out there...  2015 and 2016 were Massillon's worst and 4th worst defensive years (in terms of points allowed) in our over 100 year history.

Flat out, our defense was an absolute joke.  (The coaching, not the kids)

However the man in charge of that defense is gone.  If you believe what Cupps said of Moore on CoachHuey.com, then Moore is pretty hands off and let Cupps have control of the defense.

Our offense, like it or not, was actually effective enough over the past two years to keep us in games our pathetic defense should have kept us long out of.

Improved defense and keep the offense the same level, It's a whole different story.

----

Now... we graduated a lot of talent, but there's a serious question as to how much that will actually change much.  Despite having no QB, receiver, or running back get a D1 offer, again... the offense wasn't the problem.  Despite having multiple D1 athletes play defense, defense was out problem.

That's systematic, not talent. 

So maybe we have less talent...  We also thought that going into 2005 and were surprised by who stepped up. 

All I'm saying is I'm not going to write off this team despite the off the field issues our school has, despite the loss of some talented kids, ect...  I'm actually kind of hopeful to see what this team does with a new man in charge of defense.  Over half of the points against us were on big plays the past two years...  Imagine if you eliminated that?  Just that one stat change alone would have made us 10-0, yes, including Mentor.

It's high school ball.  Sometimes the end of the world of graduating or transferred out talent ends up being a Seth Blankenship putting up better numbers than Danny Clark. 

Ok... maybe I'm dreaming...  but hey, what else can I do right now?  I mean, we don't even know who we are playing week 7.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Tiger4life on February 27, 2017, 12:29:29 AM
High school football really comes down to 2 things, running the ball on O and stopping the run on D. When both of them happen we win , when either one has failed it's an L.
The last 3 playoff games have all been losses....
Tigers ypc = 2.9 yds
Opp ypc = 6.9 yds
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Egret on February 27, 2017, 06:53:49 AM
High school football really comes down to 2 things, running the ball on O and stopping the run on D. When both of them happen we win , when either one has failed it's an L.
The last 3 playoff games have all been losses....
Tigers ypc = 2.9 yds
Opp ypc = 6.9 yds

Great post. Pretty well nets it out doesn't it?
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on February 27, 2017, 07:30:24 AM
Quote
All I'm saying is I'm not going to write off this team despite the off the field issues our school has, despite the loss of some talented kids, ect...  I'm actually kind of hopeful to see what this team does with a new man in charge of defense.  Over half of the points against us were on big plays the past two years...  Imagine if you eliminated that?  Just that one stat change alone would have made us 10-0, yes, including Mentor.

Oh, God. Spizi is watching MONEYBALL again.

"I think it's a good thing you got Johnny Damon off your payroll, Billy. I think it opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities."

He probably has numbers crunched already about D2.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: reofan82 on February 27, 2017, 08:32:28 AM
Not sure about the QB situation but the rest of the back field should be pretty good.  Spize is right the offense was not the problem last year, it was the defense.  It wasn't even the play to play defense it was giving up the big play as referenced.  There is no use being negative about the season, let's let in play out it is only February.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Red50Go on February 27, 2017, 08:58:31 AM
That's the spirit!  I agree the QB position is a major concern but like everyone am DYING to see a halfway presentable defense.  We had 2 sophomore LB's who hopefully take a big step forward, and hopefully Anania comes back from his achilles.  I thought he looked very good as a soph.  Huth had an injury prone year but I see him moving to dl or de. 

Looking at the numbers we literally have not had a "good" defense since 2005.  Unbelievable but true.

Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Spize on February 27, 2017, 09:39:28 AM
That's the spirit!  I agree the QB position is a major concern but like everyone am DYING to see a halfway presentable defense.  We had 2 sophomore LB's who hopefully take a big step forward, and hopefully Anania comes back from his achilles.  I thought he looked very good as a soph.  Huth had an injury prone year but I see him moving to dl or de. 

Looking at the numbers we literally have not had a "good" defense since 2005.  Unbelievable but true.



I'm happy to see the end of the Cupps philosophy.  I mean, the guy actually said his defense has a designated person who is supposed to make the tackle and everyone else is supposed to push the ball carrier towards the tackler.

Say what?


Btw, it will be nice to see our linebackers not blitzing every play.  Amazing what can happen when a linebacker stays home and knows where the ball is.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Firewatch on February 27, 2017, 10:07:04 AM
I'm happy to see the end of the Cupps philosophy.  I mean, the guy actually said his defense has a designated person who is supposed to make the tackle and everyone else is supposed to push the ball carrier towards the tackler.

Say what?


Btw, it will be nice to see our linebackers not blitzing every play.  Amazing what can happen when a linebacker stays home and knows where the ball is.
So you mean to tell me our linebackers don't have to stand right on top the guard and show everybody in the stadium where they are blitzing from. That's a novel concept.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Red50Go on February 27, 2017, 10:33:32 AM
Not here to defend Cupps nor ANY of our several other defensive coaches including Hack, but we had a glaring lack of speed and talent on that side.  You said we were overrated.  Well I certainly didn't overrate us.  8-2 was my high end, at best.  Yes the Dublin game was a big flop.  No argument.   

You need both but talent > coaching.  Hell even the "worst defensive coach in Ohio" can have a lights out defense, and did.  All we can do is weather the down cycles, look forward to better ones, and develop what we do have as much as possible.     

 

   


 
 
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: LA Dragon on February 27, 2017, 10:48:45 AM
Tuff defenses play "50 Read" the whole game. Just line up and tackle the ball. Screw the stunts.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Tiger4life on February 27, 2017, 11:35:21 AM
When you are constantly running by the guy with the ball to hit the QB that won't win you games. This season has to be about the basic fundamentals of football, running and tackling, until that happens we won't see week 12.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Firewatch on February 27, 2017, 11:39:29 AM
Never could figure out why Cupps had us blitzing every play. We haven't faced a passing team for at least.. Hell I can't even remember the last one.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Tiger4life on February 27, 2017, 11:58:58 AM
Never could figure out why Cupps had us blitzing every play. We haven't faced a passing team for at least.. Hell I can't even remember the last one.
[/quote
Never could figure out why Cupps had us blitzing every play. We haven't faced a passing team for at least.. Hell I can't even remember the last one.

Cupps didn't face a "passing" team in his 21 games here, a few balanced teams like Steub, mck, Mentor and Warren but nobody who was going to throw it 30 times unless they had to. But we sure did blitz like we were playing the Patriots every week. Just another example of why we gave up 177 yds rushing per game and 5 ypc in his 21 games here. It's incredible that we gave up 21 or more pts in 12 of the 21 games, in the immortal words of Lombardi "what the hell is going on out there ? ".
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Smitty on February 27, 2017, 08:40:15 PM
Tuff defenses play "50 Read" the whole game....

That worked quite well 30+ years ago; and I don't see why it wouldn't work today.
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on February 27, 2017, 09:13:02 PM
Quote
That worked quite well 30+ years ago; and I don't see why it wouldn't work today.

You're living in the past.

*****
Spizoski = Peter Brand in Moneyball.



Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on February 27, 2017, 09:55:18 PM
Quote
We haven't faced a passing team for at least.. Hell I can't even remember the last one.

Youse remember in '79 when we played these guys?

Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: lee on February 27, 2017, 10:02:10 PM
I consider mentor a passing team. However, their is no need to pass when the other team can't stop the run.   
Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on February 27, 2017, 10:08:32 PM
Orrville with HC Bill McMillan (and Mo Tipton prior to McMillan)  could sling it, especially in 1998 with Frosh QB Justin Zwick. State Champs.

That passing game is how a D4/5 Thrilla in Orrvilla team could beat D1 and D2 teams in the Ohio Cardinal Conference back in the day.

My mother faithfully supported Orrville through shopping at Buehlers and present day with margaritas at the Mexican place on 57.

Bring back the Orr Theater and Orr Views newspaper.

A wonderful little Ohio town. At least back in the day.



Title: Re: Could 2017 actually be a year we contend?
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on February 28, 2017, 06:00:58 AM
Here's the premise: we're basing a better season on the removal of Soft Serve Cupps as DC. Which could work but at the end of the day, Nate Mooranto still picked him as his DC. How do we know his judgement will be better with the next DC?
Title: It's the football program
Post by: TigerCarl on March 11, 2017, 11:02:30 AM
For a half century, the football program of mighty Massillon has been slow-ly crumbling with the passing of each decade.

For a head coach to succeed here, he would have to re-build the football program, using whatever resources are made available to him.

The day when a capable coach could come here and simply plug his system into the Massillon football program are long gone.  He will have to start from scratch, re-evaluating the situation and finding new solutions to building a powerful program.

Such a coach will have to be an inovator.  He must mentally grasp the situation at Massillon and make it work.  He must be prepared to start from the gound up.

To do so, he must first recognize the problems, then work his magic to resolve them.

There are solutions to Massillon's flat-line program; it's a matter of hiring the right person to make it all work.