Everything Else => Front Page Articles => Topic started by: buddyh on June 01, 2017, 09:36:53 PM

Title: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: buddyh on June 01, 2017, 09:36:53 PM
(http://all-that-is-interesting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/trump-paris-agreement-withdraw.jpg)
photo courtesy of wordpress

You've probably heard or read about it.  The "Accord" is voluntary so, of course, Obama jumped in with both feet and committed the US to a wholly unobtainable reduction in fossil fuel use by 2025.  China & India for their part committed to thinking about it in 2030.  You could look it up.  And Obama, knowing that he could never get it through the Senate as a treaty, just signed on because he has grandiose tendencies.  He didn't count on Hillary losing and Trump would just refuse to participate.  Trump just did.

Is climate change real?  Of course it is.  The climate always changes.  Dinosaurs died off because of climate change.  There have been at least two Ice Ages.  Universities offer doctorates in climatology.  What a soft major climatology would be if the climate never changed.  The PhD dissertations would be so easy:  "Nothing new to report.  Where's my diploma?"

The problem is that liberals are filled with the conceit and arrogance that they, and they alone, can control and bend the climate to their will.  And their solution is to take control of the energy sector in the US economy.  And why not?  It has worked so well with health care.

In other news: Despite her protestations and blame casting, Hillary has still lost the election.  The truth of the matter is that she had a two foot putt and shanked it 150 yards into the rough.  That takes real political acumen.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: chiefy jones on June 01, 2017, 09:51:54 PM
Has construction on the wall been started yet?
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: buddyh on June 01, 2017, 10:19:20 PM
Has construction on the wall been started yet?
What does that have to do with anything in my post?

Chiefy, you may have missed it, but I am not a Trump supporter.  I support some of his policies, but I have a real problem with his style and execution.  He should stay off Tweezer and stop acting like a 14 year old girl who hates Stacy with a "Y", but likes Staci with an "I".  He should make rare, short, concise public statements.  And then let Kathy Griffin, Rosie O'Donnell, DeCaprio, Maxine Waters and their ilk foam at the mouth and post insane Twits or whatever the hell they're called.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Red50Go on June 01, 2017, 11:38:43 PM
The problem is that liberals are filled with the conceit and arrogance that they, and they alone, can control and bend the climate to their will.  And their solution is to take control of the energy sector in the US economy.   

Couple o things.  Seems to me conservatives are alone.  Well along with Syria, cough cough.  Half the US and every other country on earth thinks otherwise.

Job growth in green energy far outpaces the burning stuff industry, and that will continue, with or w/out Trump.  Including Pittsburgh - who rebuked Trump even mentioning them.  It is by far the #1 economic driver of the future, in the US and globally, and we walked away from the head seat at the table.  Others will gladly fill that in.  Brilliant.

Lastly let's be real, drilling and coal especially, are shit jobs in shit areas with a lot of accidents, deaths, and opiod abuse, ugly landscapes, and dangerously polluted water, air, and dirt.  Not to mention the billions we (taxpayers) must spend on cleaning that crap up, and treating the illness and suffering they have to live with the rest of their shortened lives.  Well, at least till we get rid of their healthcare.  You couldn't pay me to live in most of those armpits.

       
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Firewatch on June 02, 2017, 09:11:16 AM
Couple o things.  Seems to me conservatives are alone.  Well along with Syria, cough cough.  Half the US and every other country on earth thinks otherwise.

Job growth in green energy far outpaces the burning stuff industry, and that will continue, with or w/out Trump.  Including Pittsburgh - who rebuked Trump even mentioning them.  It is by far the #1 economic driver of the future, in the US and globally, and we walked away from the head seat at the table.  Others will gladly fill that in.  Brilliant.

Lastly let's be real, drilling and coal especially, are shit jobs in shit areas with a lot of accidents, deaths, and opiod abuse, ugly landscapes, and dangerously polluted water, air, and dirt.  Not to mention the billions we (taxpayers) must spend on cleaning that crap up, and treating the illness and suffering they have to live with the rest of their shortened lives.  Well, at least till we get rid of their healthcare.  You couldn't pay me to live in most of those armpits.

       
Are you saying the "Burning stuff Industry" that you grew up in is not the way to go. And you want me to hitch my wagon to the Green Energy freaks that....As of now have FAILED!!!! I notice you pinned the Opiod epidemic on the "Burning Stuff Industry" also. HUH!!! Could you ask Fryewood how many overdoses he responded to that were at Timken Steel or an oil and gas compressor station or maybe even a coal mine.


But Hey let's all follow Green Energy.


Update: 7/19/16: The Amonix Solar: FAIL! – manufacturing plant in North Las Vegas, subsidized by more than $20 million in federal tax credits and grants given by Obama Administration, has closed its 214,000 square foot facility a year after it opened.
Solar Trust of America: FAIL! – Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012
 
Bright Source: FAIL! – Bright Source warned Obama’s Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. Bright Source lost billions of dollars but is getting more money to keep trying. Can you say, “This isn’t working Mr. President?”
 
Solyndra: FAIL! – Obama gave $500,000,000 (that’s a HALF BILLION!) in taxpayer money to Solyndra who shut its doors and laid off 1100 workers in August 2011 after billions in losses due to failure to make a solar product that works! Barack Obama was not vetted before being elected President and neither was Solyndra before Mr. Obama threw that taxpayer money down the drain of unproven technology.
 
LSP Energy: FAIL! – LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012
 
Energy Conversion Devices: FAIL! – On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy
 
Abound Solar: FAIL! – Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from Barack Obama then announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy. Many of these failed corporations, such as Abound, donated MILLIONS and continue to donate to Barack Obama’s campaign. Can you say, “Democrat Slush Fund”? Yes this is illegal. But Democrats are being protected from being prosecuted, for now.
 
SunPower: FAIL! – SunPower stopped producing solar cells in 2011 at near bankruptcy then restructured with the help of, get this, oil giant TOTAL, Inc. who owns 60% stake in SunPower. Irony? The company is still struggling.
 
Beacon Power: FAIL! – Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy protection in October, 2011 just a year after Obama approved a $43 million Government loan guarantee. They remain barely in business, still struggling to make energy that makes sense or that works at all.

Ecotality: FAIL! – ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money and remains on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees from President Obama, who wants to do some more of this kind of Democrat Slush Fund Guarantees after he is elected to a 2nd term.
 
A123 Solar: FAIL! – A123 Solar received $279 million from taxpayers thanks to President Obama’s Department of Energy loan guarantees even after the Solyndra bankruptcy and is getting another $500M from Obama after a loss of $400M.
 
UniSolar: FAIL! – Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20, 2012 after laying off hundreds of workers. UniSolar received even more Obama money after showing now progress, no profits and is still failing… yet they still remain in business with Obama’s help.
 
Azure Dynamics: FAIL! – Azure Dynamics filed for bankruptcy in June , 2012 wasting millions in Obama “Stimulus” money and received abatement on taxes owed and and several tax credits.  Azure Dynamics LLC filed for bankruptcy protection in Canada and the US.  Azure laid off 120 of its 160 employees in Oak Park; Boston; Vancouver, British Columbia; and the UK.
 
Evergreen Solar: FAIL! – Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money from Obama and filed bankruptcy in late 2011. Evergreen, which closed its taxpayer-supported Devens factory in March, 2011 cut more than 1800 jobs. Evergreen’s $450 million factory, turned out to be a colossal “waste” of taxpayer money.
 
Ener1: FAIL! Ener1 Inc. received a $118 million U.S. Energy Department grant from President Obama to make electric-car batteries but filed for bankruptcy protection January 2012 after defaulting on bond debt.
 
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on June 02, 2017, 09:23:43 AM
Firewatch and LA are good people.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on June 02, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Quote
Lastly let's be real, drilling and coal especially, are shit jobs in shit areas with a lot of accidents, deaths, and opiod abuse, ugly landscapes, and dangerously polluted water, air, and dirt.  Not to mention the billions we (taxpayers) must spend on cleaning that crap up, and treating the illness and suffering they have to live with the rest of their shortened lives.  Well, at least till we get rid of their healthcare.  You couldn't pay me to live in most of those armpits.

Ah, the stoopidity of the office cubicle.

It spreads to the water cooler.

Did ya ever hear of the Massillon coal seam?
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Red50Go on June 02, 2017, 10:34:09 AM
They are definitely good people!  The future is still green energy, and is where the highest job growth is occurring, and will occur.  And yes, drugs are everywhere, but the opioid crisis is especially endemic in WV and coal country.  It just is.  We also do more subsidize oil/gas than any other industry.  From military protection here and overseas, wars, to environmental cleanup and pollution controls, to treating related illnesses.  True cost ranges from $400-$500/barrel. 

Yes we grew up on it, and I remember driving into Cleveland and Pittsburgh as a kid when they looked like hell with the lid off.  I also remember definitely NOT fishing let alone entering Lake Erie or the Cuyahoga.  I don't discredit the wealth and standard of living that all brought, but time to move to better technologies.  They still have a valuable role and always will but at increasingly reduced levels, and that is a good thing.
         
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: LA Dragon on June 02, 2017, 11:28:25 AM
Let's not act like the media on here and show off our "selective hearing" skills.

President Trump is not against discussions and pacts concerning climate change and doing things better. He says the current Paris Climate Accord is a crock of shit because it puts the burden on the U.S., both in financial costs and loss of jobs, while China & India (2 of the most populated countries on Earth) have been luke warm to it. He is not against some re-working of this stupid deal Obama pushed for simply for his legacy, not as an effective and useful tool against climate change.

One other thing, as buddyh points out, we have no control of the climate. Don't flatter yourself.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on June 02, 2017, 03:22:19 PM
Massillon's past prosperity was driven by coal.

There is nothing wrong with coal, steel, and US manufacturing. It's globalism pushed by DC and Wall Street that has been destructive over the last 30 years.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on June 02, 2017, 06:12:39 PM
Quote
Has construction on the wall started yet
Cheefy Jones, Your 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers of Political Commentators

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/05/02/mulvaney_trump_is_building_a_wall_right_now_here_are_the_pictures.html#!

MICK MULVANEY: The president delivered on his promises and got his priorities funded, and that's what the Democrats don't want you to know. They want you to think they won, but they don't want you to know the American people won here because the president simply out-negotiated them.

I want to come back to one thing, and then I'll take some questions. If I can bring the pictures up now, that would be great. You've heard me talk a lot over the course of the last couple weeks -- I've been on television a couple of times saying, oh, there's no bricks and mortar; there's no bricks and mortar; and there's no bricks and mortar for a wall in this. We could build this, OK?

And we're going to build this. There are several hundreds of millions of dollars for us to replace cyclone fencing with 20-foot high steel wall. There's several hundreds of millions of dollars in the bill for us -- can we bring up the other photo please? Do we have the other photo?

There's several hundreds of millions of dollars for us to build levee walls along the southern border. And as many of you know who follow this issue, some of the most vulnerable areas that we have are places along rivers where we desperately need levees in order to provide the protection of the southern border that we -- that we need, OK?

We are building this now. There is money in this deal to build several hundreds of millions of dollars of this to replace this. That's what we got in this deal and that's what the Democrats don't want you to know. This stuff is going up now. Why? Because the president wants to make the country more safe.

This doesn't stop drugs and doesn't stop criminals from crossing the border. In fact, it doesn't stop hardly anything from crossing the border. This does. And that's what we got in this deal, and that's why we're so excited about the opportunities that we have to follow through on the president's promises to secure the southern border.

So unless we have the other -- the other picture, I'll take a couple of questions.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on June 02, 2017, 06:22:37 PM
"This is so hot!" - Cheefy The 0-14 Political Commentator.

(http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images_5/hillary-clinton-9-8-16-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on June 02, 2017, 06:35:33 PM
Oh Cheefy.......

(http://slightlywarped.com/crapfactory/curiosities/2011/march/images/fake_s75.jpg)

(http://liveplayfully.gogosqueez.com/core/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/1976-tampa-bay-buccaneers-uniform-540x540.png)
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: buddyh on June 02, 2017, 09:14:29 PM
The future is still green energy, and is where the highest job growth is occurring, and will occur.
Maybe that's due to Obama's policies favoring solar and wind over all other energy sources.  And that's the past.  The future?  Eh. Maybe. We'll see.  BTW, did you you know that most solar panels used in the US are made in China?  Look it up.  For my part, I'd prefer to let the free market (we are both part of that) work out what's the most efficient, cost effective energy source rather than have some nameless, unelected young snot in the EPA make that determination for the entire economy (we are both of that as well).

But that's just me.  I don't like anyone of any political or philosophical persuasion telling me what I must do.  If you are comfortable with that notion, have it at.  Just leave me off the list of those who are required to comply.  I don't think that's asking too much.  Do you?
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: LA Dragon on June 03, 2017, 08:32:10 AM
Lee Roy Selmon, he would have been on the JV squad if Da Klub was running the Tampa Bay Bucs.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: chiefy jones on June 03, 2017, 04:21:22 PM
Nice pictures....Got one of a wall being built on our southern border?
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on June 03, 2017, 04:33:06 PM
Youse remain winless.....

(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/5908d98b7dea7226008b6002-506-253/trumps-budget-director-unveils-photos-of-what-the-border-wall-may-look-like.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: LA Dragon on June 03, 2017, 04:43:46 PM
Not yet, chiefy. Not yet.

We do have pictures of President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Elizabeth Warren, Chuck Shumer and Hillary Clinton all together in one room.

You can find it online if you google "dumb fuccs who lie to people for their benefit".
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Shreve Legal Team on June 03, 2017, 06:34:21 PM
My photo is the very photo displayed by Mick Mulvaney at his press conference.

Cheefy is running up a Timken Trojans record on politics.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Phil the Thrill on June 03, 2017, 08:44:28 PM
Cheefy's getting his poetry ready for Harry Reid and the Cowboy Poetry Festival. 
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: john21wall on June 06, 2017, 05:45:32 AM
Disappointed with today’s decision on the Paris Agreement. Climate change is real. Industry must now lead and not depend on government.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Egret on June 06, 2017, 06:19:02 AM
Disappointed with today’s decision on the Paris Agreement. Climate change is real. Industry must now lead and not depend on government.

Sigh. Really? This is your first quote. How about someone other that us pay the $1 TRILLION that this idiotic agreement cost US. Hell yes we pulled out. Construct something a little more fair that Obammy can't touch.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: LA Dragon on June 06, 2017, 07:36:31 AM
Disappointed with today’s decision on the Paris Agreement. Climate change is real. Industry must now lead and not depend on government.

Industry should lead! That's the way everything should operate. We don't need some socialist government telling us what we can and can't do. This Paris Compact had good intentions except when the U.S. has to foot the bill for the rest of the world. You don't have to be a Trump level business person to know that deal stinks!
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Red50Go on June 06, 2017, 09:30:22 AM
Industry should lead, and Trump the business person should support them.  But he did not.  So they are proceeding, not with his support, but in spite of falsehoods and pandering by a minority in the political class.  The overwhelming majority of "real" business leaders (hell even Exxon) support the Paris deal - because it stalls the economy, US job growth, and global leadership in new technology.  Ok.






     

Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: LA Dragon on June 06, 2017, 10:50:56 AM
Why then, do all these business leaders need a "compact"? Again, the concept of reducing pollution and doing things better is a good dream to chase, but the deal sucked. It was also a bad deal for America.

https://www.atr.org/obamas-paris-agreement-all-cost-and-no-benefit-us
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Red50Go on June 06, 2017, 11:59:01 AM
Grover Norquist???  All I'll say is Pittsburgh, Exxon, and everyone from Google, Apple, Dow, 3M, GE, Goldman Sachs, to Coke and Campbell Soup (lol) disagree.  And the majority of the country.  And the entire rest of the world.  You are in elite company on this one.


 
 
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Egret on June 06, 2017, 12:31:04 PM
I keep hearing a "majority of the country". I keep asking for proof of that. I've yet to see it. Perhaps it will reflect the same idiotic "popular vote" the snowflakes are still crying about.

Not you Red50Go. The rest of them. You don't cry at all. Nor does Chiefy.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: LA Dragon on June 06, 2017, 02:08:44 PM
Think about it, Red50Go, these business owners like Apple, Google, Coke, etc. all make their living on revenue from consumers. Now, in 2017 and in the future, a large majority of those revenues come from the millennial generation. Do you think they want to alienate that revenue stream? lol

SOPM - Spending Other People's Money - A favorite pastime of people who don't have it.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: buddyh on June 06, 2017, 02:45:39 PM
I keep hearing a "majority of the country". I keep asking for proof of that. I've yet to see it.
"Experts all agree" and "97% of scientists agree".  My God, what more proof do you need?
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Red50Go on June 06, 2017, 03:10:57 PM
LA, oil/gas is one of if not the most heavily taxpayer subsidized industry we have.  You do make a good point but let them pay for their own military protection (including overseas especially), logistics, pollution control, environmental cleanups, and related health issues, then let's see how cheap gas is. 
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: LA Dragon on June 06, 2017, 03:21:34 PM
Gas can be real cheap here in the U.S. if we could just get past the regulations and tap into it. Believe me, in my business, I've done plenty of research into the energy sector. North America can be totally energy independent and not rely on anybody from the Middle East if we wanted.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Egret on June 06, 2017, 03:33:38 PM
Gas can be real cheap here in the U.S. if we could just get past the regulations and tap into it. Believe me, in my business, I've done plenty of research into the energy sector. North America can be totally energy independent and not rely on anybody from the Middle East if we wanted.

We need to get the speculators out of the industry too right LA Dragon. They control the price more than the actual oil companies OR supply.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Red50Go on June 06, 2017, 03:49:45 PM
Perhaps if it were nationalized.  But you can't force a US producer not to sell overseas for a higher price.  Or can you?  OPEC still sets the price, and if it is higher don't expect private businesses to sell for less here out of patriotic duty.

We could definitely be energy independent, by increasing wind, solar, nuclear (maybe), while greatly reducing not increasing the need for oil & gas.     


 
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: LA Dragon on June 06, 2017, 04:05:08 PM
That's another crazy Democrat law that we had for the last 40 years. The U.S. was not allowed to export oil & gas until last January 2016. No kiddin'!

How come no one is talking about the new "Sugar Deal" that Wilbur Ross & President Trump struck between the U.S. and Mexico? Mexico was undercutting U.S. manufacturers of sugar and killing jobs by importing subsidized raw sugar into the U.S.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-mexico-idUSKBN18W1YK

Wilbur Ross says, "No Mas!"   I look forward to hearing Rachel MadCow's discussion about this on MSNBC tonight.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Firewatch on June 06, 2017, 08:05:46 PM
We need to get the speculators out of the industry too right LA Dragon. They control the price more than the actual oil companies OR supply.
My favorite is when they say the price of gas went up because a couple refineries are down for maintenance. LOL!!! Anybody that believes this should be beaten with a rubber hose.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: buddyh on June 06, 2017, 08:40:16 PM
Perhaps if it were nationalized.
Sure.  It worked out really well with Obamacare.  Just today it was announced that 20 counties in OH will no longer be able to purchase health care insurance from the Obamacare exchange.  And "exchange" was a euphemism for "We'll take your money and you won't get shit."

If a way was discovered to make cars and homes to run on Bermuda grass, the guvmint would get involved.  The price of grass seed would skyrocket and there would be a Bermuda grass shortage.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: buddyh on June 06, 2017, 09:04:51 PM
The climate change deal is not all that complicated.  It comes down to a few simple questions.

Is the climate changing?  Sure.  It always has and always will.  If it doesn't, we're screwed.

Is it man-made?  No one can say to a certainty.  Even the UN Committee for Making Everything a Damned Problem doesn't go that far.

If it is man-made, can man solve it?  Before you answer, look up the word "hubris".

If man can solve it, what's the proper solution?  Guvmint takeover and control of the energy sector?  Or individuals making millions of economic decisions in their own interest?  I'll put solar panels on my roof, go "off the grid", and quit paying the electric company.  I'll buy a more efficient refrigerator.  I'll buy an electric car and save money by not paying exorbitant gas taxes.  I'll buy the biggest, gas guzzling SUV I can find, buy lots o' gasoline and pay lots o' taxes.

And it's that simple.  Guvmint control and regulation or the market and free citizens making decisions and taking actions that suit them best.
Title: Re: Trump Pulls Out Of Climate Accord
Post by: Spize on June 07, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
Has construction on the wall been started yet?

I'm kinda sick of you.